Reiger.
+2 for interchangable OEM BMW parts between model years.
Bumpers
ddavidv
#23
155MPH wrote:
[quote]
+2 for interchangable OEM BMW parts between model years.[/quote]
A simple update/backdate rule could take care of this. If somone wants to go to the trouble of swapping this stuff around to improve appearance, let 'em. I can’t see any performance advantage in either bumper set. Personally, I like the diving boards…makes it easier to push those 944s out of the way. :lol:
jlevie
#24
One argument for swapping out the "diving board" bumpers for the later integrated bumpers is the greater availaibility (and cheaper) replacement parts. Maybe I’ve just not found the right place, but I’m having a heck of time finding a replacement front spoiler for an 87 325is. Racing Dynamics is the only non-OE spoiler I’ve found and I haven’t found any at salvage yards. The RD spoiler is over $500, and it looks to me like the OE parts would be a similar price (if I can even get them). That’s a lot more than replacement spoilers for the later bumpers.
ctbimmer
#25
About 2 years ago I bought an 87 325es front spoiler from Bobby at Strictly German and paid $100 for it. Was tired, in need of paint but otherwise not bad.
The only downside was that it didn’t have the center grill for the oil cooler. At the time, I wasn’t running one. If you are, and are handy with a saw, you could make a hole easily enough I would think.
The foglight holes make dandy mounting points for collector ducts to feed 3" round connectors to brake cooling lines, if you have them. Got some cheap rectangular plastic ducts for a few bucks from Discovery.
Anyway, couldn’t beat the price.
jlevie
#26
Contact info for Strictly German? Can’t hurt to ask.
So far in calling around (6 different yards that specialize in BMWs) what I keep hearing is that they haven’t seen a usable IS or ES spoiler is quite a while.That’s not too surprising given the short production life of the cars that are potential donors.
bmwbadboy
#27
My 2 cents. I don’t think there is any performance improvement of one bumper over another. Thats partially incorrect if you count the benefit that the big bumpers have an advantage over the short if your planning on bumping other E30’s. So being thats the case the rules should let use either the short or long bumpers regardless of what came with the car. Most racers would not spend the money to convert the long bumpers to the short ones. I wouldn’t. Personally I like the big bumpers. If someone buys a car with a bumper swap why should we make them spend more money. We have racers with the short and long bumpers on the track already!
nasaregistrar
#28
jlevie wrote:
[quote]One argument for swapping out the "diving board" bumpers for the later integrated bumpers is the greater availaibility (and cheaper) replacement parts. Maybe I’ve just not found the right place, but I’m having a heck of time finding a replacement front spoiler for an 87 325is. Racing Dynamics is the only non-OE spoiler I’ve found and I haven’t found any at salvage yards. The RD spoiler is over $500, and it looks to me like the OE parts would be a similar price (if I can even get them). That’s a lot more than replacement spoilers for the later bumpers.[/quote] The 87 iS spoiler is a rare bird these days. Mine got busted up pretty bad over the years on the street. I could never justify the price of a replacement.
jlevie
#29
I suspect that’s what happened with this car. There’s no spoiler on it at all, quite possibly because the PO couldn’t find one or couldn’t afford what they did find.
While there’s not a lot of '87’s, as compared to later production cars, it would seem to me that a rule modification permitting the retro-fitting of the later integrated bumpers & spoilers would be consistent with the goal of keeping things affordable. And as previously noted, there are already both kinds of bumpers & spoilers in use and there’s no evident performance benefit to either configuration.
erupert66
#30
OK, so this is a long thread and I don’t see a direct answer to this question:
Can I make a spoiler as long as it complies with the ruleset statements? I ask because I have a huge sheet of the flexible plastic that the dirt-track cars use for skirting. I made a really nice spoiler for my 944 out of it with cutouts for the radiator, fresh air vent and oil-cooler vent. Would probably like to do the same on this car based on the fact that I am trying to build a competitive car on a low-buck budget and am cataloging all of the build costs. This would be a "freebie" since an 8’x10’ sheet costs $30.
Also, a bit confused on the bumper thread. I started calling the Spec e30 shops recommended and one of the first things I heard when I said '87 was "the first thing I would do is get rid of those clunky bumpers". From this thread, that doesn’t sound legal. Is it?
30SpecE30
#31
My old car, now the davidsons first car, has a plastic chin I made. WOrks great!!!
Follow the rules and you are fine.
leggwork
#32
you’ve read this whole thread and you’re still asking whether you can swap the bumpers? 
You are responsible for rules compliance, not the shop where you have work done or buy stuff.
http://spece30.com/component/option,com_zoom/Itemid,48/page,view/catid,16/PageNo,2/key,11/hit,1/
second car in has a spoiler like you’re describing
cheers,
bruce
erupert66 wrote:
[quote]OK, so this is a long thread and I don’t see a direct answer to this question:
Can I make a spoiler as long as it complies with the ruleset statements? I ask because I have a huge sheet of the flexible plastic that the dirt-track cars use for skirting. I made a really nice spoiler for my 944 out of it with cutouts for the radiator, fresh air vent and oil-cooler vent. Would probably like to do the same on this car based on the fact that I am trying to build a competitive car on a low-buck budget and am cataloging all of the build costs. This would be a "freebie" since an 8’x10’ sheet costs $30.
Also, a bit confused on the bumper thread. I started calling the Spec e30 shops recommended and one of the first things I heard when I said '87 was "the first thing I would do is get rid of those clunky bumpers". From this thread, that doesn’t sound legal. Is it?[/quote]
erupert66
#33
ddavidv wrote:
Personally, I like the diving boards…makes it easier to push those 944s out of the way. :lol:[/quote]
And visa-versa, I’ve kept my factory 944 bumpers for the same reason :laugh:
Actually not, I wouldn’t "nudge" another car out of the way as it’s not the way I drive. I am sure your comment was tongue in cheek too. :unsure:
erupert66
#34
leggwork wrote:
[quote]you’ve read this whole thread and you’re still asking whether you can swap the bumpers? You are responsible for rules compliance, not the shop where you have work done or buy stuff.
[/quote]
I guess I was asking because it was suggested by a Spec e30 sponsor who I would assume would be up on these types of things and it wasn’t clear what was being talked about (which I understand now is the "skin" on the later bumpers). In any case, I agree with you as to who is responsible. For all of the cars that I have developed, I have always had a copy of the relevant GCR or rulesets for reference. Just trying to navigate my way through the Spec e30 rules and it’s a bit tougher because I’ve never owned a BMW or even driven one of these cars. I am sure that the prep will be an interesting learning experience.
nasaregistrar
#35
Hey Eric,
Don’t be shy about asking here. There have been a bunch of threads about some of the most obvious rule pecularities and the bumber thing happens to be one of them.
Carter
#36
Yes, we do want to hear from the drivers, regarding their experiences. And while all the veteran drivers know that we are very slow to consider Rules changes, we have always maintained that the driver’s interests are very important.
If a Rule creates a situation that we could not predict, we will review the situation and will consider a change. But everyone should know that Spec E30 Rules changes are very rare.
Carter
sdais
#37
Carter wrote:
[quote]Yes, we do want to hear from the drivers, regarding their experiences. And while all the veteran drivers know that we are very slow to consider Rules changes, we have always maintained that the driver’s interests are very important.
If a Rule creates a situation that we could not predict, we will review the situation and will consider a change. But everyone should know that Spec E30 Rules changes are very rare.
Carter[/quote]
As one who has suggested rule modifications more than once, I for one have been convinced by my observations @ BMW CR that rule stability is a GOOD THING. However, I continue to be of the opinion that the inconsistency presented by this bumper thing warrants one of them there ‘rare rules changes’ that Carter refers to above.
Just wanted to add my $0.01. (money is tight during the holidays…!)
jlevie
#38
Rule stability is a good thing, but it seems to me that this is a case where a rule change is justified. Both variants of the bumper are used and there’s no demonstrable competitive advantage to one or the other. Given the scarcity of spoilers for the diving "board bumpers", it would make sense to allow someone with an earlier car to switch to the later sytle bumper. And the concesus (unanimous I think) in this thread is that a retrofit should be allowed.
I suspect that the only ones really interested in this would be someone with an early car that needs a spoiler. That may not be a large fraction of the community, but for those folks it is of some importance.
155MPH
#39
I agree wholeheartedly.
As for the 87 "Cow Catcher" front valence, its only a matter of time before it gets destroyed on/off track.
JP <— On his second expensive valence/can’t wait for a rules change
erupert66
#40
155MPH wrote:
[quote]I agree wholeheartedly.
As for the 87 "Cow Catcher" front valence, its only a matter of time before it gets destroyed on/off track.
JP <— On his second expensive valence/can’t wait for a rules change[/quote]
Aren’t these different topics (pardon the question from a newbie)? The question here is whether or not bumper substitution can happen. The "cow catcher" valence is the spoiler which I believe from reading the rules is "free" as long as it complies with the stated specs.
I plan on making mine from the plastic sheeting that they use on dirt-track cars. $30 buys a 4’ x 8’ sheet. I have lots left.
