 |
|
Hi, Im planning on building a spec e30 car and i have a question about bumper swapping.
The car is a 1987 325is, But someone already swapped 88-91 bumpers and front valence onto the car. The bumpers have all the same hardware as the stock 88-91’s do.
If i kept the later bumpers on a early car would this be legal or would i have to source early bumpers?
Nate
9.3.13.3. Front spoilers, air dams, and splitters are permitted, provided they do not protrude more than two (2) inches beyond the overall outline of the body when viewed from above, perpendicular to the ground, or aft of the forward most part of the fender opening. This body outline does not include bumpers or bumper mounts, but does include integrated bumper assemblies if so equipped.
9.3.13.3.1. Vehicles with integrated bumper assemblies may use aftermarket front one-piece bumper/spoiler unit, provided the original crash bar is maintained.
Anyone care to define "integrated bumper assemblies"?
It doesn’t seem to be anywhere in the rules which places it in the old "if it doesn’t say you CAN do it, you can’t"
If you search, there should be quite a bit of discussion on the topic.
JP
Integrated Bumper assy is the 88+ style.
Sell the short bumpers and pick up the correct ones. Ask Al Taylor if he can hook you up
Nate:
It’s good to hear about your plans.
Yes, the car has to have the bumpers that came on that particular car, from the factory. Your situation is rare and I’m sure someone with a street driven or weekend track car would love to swap bumpers with you. You might even do it without it costing either of you anything.
By the way, where are you located?
Carter
JP, are you looking at the 2005 rules? 2006 rules say
[quote]9.3.13.3. Front spoilers, air dams, and splitters are permitted, provided they do not protrude more than two (2) inches beyond the overall outline of the body when viewed from above, perpendicular to the ground, or aft of the forward most part of the fender opening. This body outline does not include bumpers or bumper mounts, but does include the integrated bumper assemblies of 1989 to 1991 models.
9.3.13.3.1. Vehicles with integrated bumper assemblies, 1989 to 1991models, may use aftermarket front one-piece bumper/spoiler unit, provided the original crash bar is maintained.[/quote]
I know this because I asked exactly the same question about a year ago!
cheers,
bruce
155MPH wrote:
[quote]9.3.13.3. Front spoilers, air dams, and splitters are permitted, provided they do not protrude more than two (2) inches beyond the overall outline of the body when viewed from above, perpendicular to the ground, or aft of the forward most part of the fender opening. This body outline does not include bumpers or bumper mounts, but does include integrated bumper assemblies if so equipped.
9.3.13.3.1. Vehicles with integrated bumper assemblies may use aftermarket front one-piece bumper/spoiler unit, provided the original crash bar is maintained.
Anyone care to define "integrated bumper assemblies"?
It doesn’t seem to be anywhere in the rules which places it in the old "if it doesn’t say you CAN do it, you can’t"
If you search, there should be quite a bit of discussion on the topic.
JP[/quote]
hmmm, initially I figured the answer would be that only North American models are allowed, but I couldn’t find anything in the rules that restricts us to only those. Except, in the engine swapping section there is a reference to a US model chassis.
so, Carter?
bruce
My main problem with these rules is that once you do an engine swap, and you swap the bumpers too, who would know the difference…there is no provision for checking the vin or prod date. I really think this rule ought to be updated, make everybody run stock body parts too. I know the rules need to be stable but even people that know the rules can’t make sense of this one.
Should I commision a carbon maker to have somebody make a full carbon World Challenge style splitter and riser and charge World Challenge prices for it? I have been asked several times about this allready by customers.
[quote]Are Euro chrome bumpers legal on an original Euro shell?
Don [/quote]
I personally think that would be cool if the driveline/etc were correct parts to run the euro trim and what not. I think others would see it differently as they don’t have some of the same wiring, turn markers, etc that we have to have.
I’m confused also, I don’t understand the wording of the rules. Are aftermarket bumper covers allowed? This seems really strange why not just keep it stock? What is the reasoning for this? Seems kinda strange. I’m not really familiar with the different versions of the 325 so maybe I’m missing something.
the later cars have a bumper cover that is replaceable, the aluminum bumpers do not. The rule allows for the replacement of the cover as long as the rest of the rule is complied with
similar to why it was allowed in BMW CR Jstock - argument is that the one-piece aftermarket cover is cheaper than a new air dam or bumper cover if yours gets damaged.
cheers,
bruce
why would someone want this Rob? The stock crash bar must be maintained, and that is the heavy part.
cheers,
bruce
robweenerpi wrote:
[quote]Should I commision a carbon maker to have somebody make a full carbon World Challenge style splitter and riser and charge World Challenge prices for it? I have been asked several times about this allready by customers.
[/quote]
The people that have asked me want an improvement in performance obviously. By running a proper splitter/riser etc you can reduce drag and increase downforce. Reducing weight isn’t the issue, if you look at our WCTC E46’s and E90’s where a splitter is allowed there is a large improvement in handling and significant amount of downforce using lightened stock bumpers and stock body panels. I feel that no matter what people are actually running if a few guys start running big dams, splitters, etc the perception will become you NEED a splitter to go fast. Cost goes up based on racers doing the monkey see monkey do routine.
I just looked up the plastic bumper cover from one of my suppliers and I could sell this thing for under $150 PN# 51 11 1 953 646 is anyone is interested. Not an OE part but looks exactly like it and is plastic construction.
"IS" front lip PN# 51 71 1 968 488 Genuine BMW part for about 165. I know I could do better than that ifI buy it directly from BMW for a better price. This is the thicker one on the later valence more likely to get knocked off.
and the smaller lip PN# 51 71 1 945 559 which will prove more durable for off track excursions for about 60 bucks.
I don’t see anything unreasonable for these prices for a brand new part. And used part abound in nearly every junkyard. Those are the three most likely to be broken parts on the later front end. Also if everybody does like Carter and some of the older guard statesmen of the class and you are allowed to swap to the earlier bumpers the weight difference is not large and you’ll never need to replace and thing except maybe the bottom lip if you go off track. Shipping these parts will cost the same as any aftermarket ‘performance’ peice so to me the need for them is de-bunked. Also you CAN run Aluminum bumpers on the later valence which seems to be the favorite valence to run for asthetic reasons. Some 87 cars like my shell came that way from the factory. I dunno if anybody’s ever tried but I’d bet you could even put plastic ones on the early valence with some effort, dunno why you’d want too…
Al Taylor, Bret Luter, Strictly German, Motorsports Recycling I’m sure would go even cheaper and would be happy to put that cash back into thier own racing budgets. I’ve heard they all have a few parts E30’s laying around.
Spec E36 is coming and I really think Spec E30 will lose out huge without major cost containment by closing a few loopholes. Those are newer cars and although the builds will cost more overall maintenance costs will be roughly the same.
I’m not making an argument either way on the front spoilers/bumpers, but I will say that the early spoilers are a huge pain in the ass. Tight clearances and hidden 10mm fasteners make taking it off or putting it on a two hour job, at best.
It seems to me that the '88 cars are the best of both worlds – strong metal bumpers, later spoiler/valance.
I agree with Rob, coming from J-Stock there is a perception that you need the EVO II front lip or similiar aftermarket one piece and although it probably doesn’t make any difference on a J-Stock car everybody bought them. I think we should change this rule. I think everything should be stock, including no splitter only what came on the car. I also think you should be allowed to update or backdate to a different years style if you want. I just don’t like grey areas where a racer can get creative, I’ve seen some pretty interesting front splitters in J-Stock (that were legal by the way).
I agree there needs to be a change to this rule. If I understand it correctly cars with "diving board" bumpers cannot change or modify theirs but the later one piece bumbers can modify the spoiler or cover. This doesn’t seem consistant. Both bumpers should be either left stock or be allowed to be modified. Am I missing something?
I think the rules should be… front and rear bumper and front valence/lip should be a bmw part from any year us spec e30 only. Not including M3 bumpers and any m-tech euro parts.
This will allow tinkering and modification with out having grey areas.
Nate
Needle wrote:
[quote]I think the rules should be… front and rear bumper and front valence/lip should be a bmw part from any year us spec e30 only. Not including M3 bumpers and any m-tech euro parts.
This will allow tinkering and modification with out having grey areas.
Nate[/quote]
+1 Simple and fair.
