Brief Updates - more details soon

#1

All:

I want to address all the recent comments and questions - and will do so this weekend. However, so the group knows that I’m working on the program, below are a few brief updates.

  1. We have contacted a statistician (sp?) and will present the many, many, dyno graphs for his analysis. He is excited about the project and again, the max hp and torque numbers program will be a trial program for the first half of the '08 season. I will work closely with all NASA Regions that dyno cars at the track, to gain more knowledge and experience. If it’s working well, we’ll use it in the compliance program for the second half of the season. If it’s not, we’ll tweak it until we (Spec E30 and the drivers together) feel comfortable with it.

  2. Several months ago, Mike Mills (cofounder of Spec E30) contacted me to explain that he could no longer be directly involved in the goings-on of the series. His work with BMW CCA Club Racing would result in a conflict of interest, so understandably he chose to step away from Spec E30. Thankfully, he agreed to continue to maintain the website and has done a great job with it.

Some may have a concern about this but I can assure the group that Spec E30 still has to report to NASA National, in the interest of a balance of power. They sanction our racing and our rules must be approved by Brian Cohn, the National Competition Director. I understand that we are racing in their organization and am happy to ask his approval on our Rules package. If he sees a rule that he feels is not in the long-term interest of any NASA series, he won’t approve it.

  1. Regarding the latest issues, including the spec exhaust, Brian, after reserching the issue over the last few days, has ruled that the spec exhaust rule is a good idea and that it will be required June 1, 2008. I will add more comments/justifications to this issue this weekend. Also, Brian and Chris Cobetto (Mid Atlantic Regional Director) are looking for a muffler sponsorship deal for us at the SEMA show in Las Vegas. I will ask them about what they found, this weekend. Within the next few days, we will have the specs for the exhaust. This has taken longer than we expected (what doesn’t?) but we want to get the best deal for the racers. Our target cost of $150.00 installed, is still within reach and I want us all to get the most for our money.

  2. Brian has asked me to get the updated Rules to him and I should have it done by early this coming week. I have a few items to present to the group and want some feedback over the weekend. I’ll list each item for comment, by Saturday.

Carter Hunt
Spec E30 Series Administrator

#2

Carter Hunt wrote:

[quote]All:

  1. We have contacted a statistician (sp?) and will present the many, many, dyno graphs for his analysis. He is excited about the project and again, the max hp and torque numbers program will be a trial program for the first half of the '08 season. I will work closely with all NASA Regions that dyno cars at the track, to gain more knowledge and experience. If it’s working well, we’ll use it in the compliance program for the second half of the season. If it’s not, we’ll tweak it until we (Spec E30 and the drivers together) feel comfortable with it.

Carter Hunt
Spec E30 Series Administrator[/quote]

Good move getting real statistician. I would be very interested to see what he comes up with and how he arrives to his conclusion(s).

I don’t know if he has (or will have) big enough statistical sample of dyno runs, and to factor in car-to-car variability (and especially if the car has rebuilt engine to the max as in oversized pistons, rebuilt tranny and diff…), dyno-to-dyno variability (i.e. using different dynos - can he get data for that from dyno mfg.?), take into account weather (temp, atmo pressure), operator variability, etc. - will be interesting what he/she comes up with (155 hp +/- 25 hp :woohoo: )

That would be nice, but I doubt it (price) will pan out for CA region :)( (yes it’s always california :slight_smile: ). Shop rates here in the SF bay area are about $100 an hour … (well I guess it’s a good ting I can weld)

#3

Thank you for the update carter. We are looking forward to February.

#4

Thanks for the update Carter.

#5

You know I like to post updates by the numbers (do not necessarily correspond with the numbers in previous posts)…

  1. The Rules are being tweaked very slightly, mostly. It takes hours to go through them, line-by-line and to try to figure out how someone will try to get around them.

I am also cleaning-up some rules that show how our program is in-line with NASA, regarding body contact rules, etc. that were not a part of the early Rules.

  1. Regarding the exhaust and the costs, while the exact details are being worked out, the costs will be reasonable. So far, I can say with confidence that the collector will cost about $35.00 plus shipping, the muffler will cost about $25.00 plus shipping, the mandrel bent pipe should cost about $16.00 plus shipping and the pipes should cost about $11.00 plus shipping per 4 ft. straight piece - I’m thinking that two sections might be enough. Or, you can get it from a local exhaust shop of course.

So, we’re looking at about $100.00 plus welding.

  1. If anyone is building a car right now, you can feel confident that you haven’t done anything that isn’t legal right now. And the exhaust is the only significant change and that isn’t due until June.

  2. I’ll finish with the Rules and will get them to Brian at NASA National for his review.

  3. I’ll go through all the posts over the next couple of days and will respond to anything that needs my attention.

Carter

#6

Carter Hunt wrote:

[quote]
…
3. If anyone is building a car right now, you can feel confident that you haven’t done anything that isn’t legal right now. And the exhaust is the only significant change and that isn’t due until June.
…[/quote]

So, am I correct in assuming that the new exhaust will be available soon? Perhaps before the end of the calendar year? I’d like to get my build completed by early-mid January and maybe start working out the kinks at some early events down south before OH/IN starts its season.

#7

David and all:

The first prototype of the spec exhaust is being built right now and I’ll have it on my car by the beginning of the week after Thanksgiving. We’re going on an extended-family vacation during Thanksgiving week.

I’ll make sure the fit is correct and the system will be available to the public just after.

Some highlights…but not every little detail…
-Wording changes reflect that NASA controls penalties for illegal modifications and on-track driver misconduct.
-"SO" class letters are not required. Official Spec E30 decals (low cost for sure) will be required and will be available asap.
-Allow antifreeze at cold weather events if it’s approved by the Regional Director.
-Speed limiting DME may be replaced with an unmodified non-speed limiting DME.
-Spec exhaust for any car towed to a race weekend required June 1, 2008. Cars driven to the track on public highways must use a fully functioning OEM or OEM equivalent exhaust (per Brian Cohn).
-Fixed or adjustable camber plates. Max front -3.5 degrees. This (camber setting) may be adjusted up to June 1 and after many cars have been examined.
-Max rear camber -3.5 degrees. This (camber setting) may be adjusted up to June 1 and after many cars have been examined.
-Max front and rear track is 195 mm with a leeway of 5 mm. This (maximum track width) may be adjusted up to June 1 and after many cars have been examined.
-Oil pan protector plate allowed. Specific size in the Rules
-14"X6.5" wheels allowed.
-ATE Calipers may have brass guide bushings. Helps even-out pad wear and saves money.
-Minimum flywheel weight after balancing.
-Windshield protection film allowed. Saves windshields and saves money.

There are a few more housekeeping items that were clarified.

The official Rules will be published with NASA after the approval of Bryan Cohn.

Regarding the max hp and torque at specific rpm program, the dyno sheets package has been delivered to the statistician. We are planning a conference call this week. Again, this is a trial program but I want the group to know how we are proceeding.

Carter

#8

I like it.

What is the correct way to measure track? Measure center to center of tire prints after driving through water?

#9

First, this all sounds great and I cannot wait to go racing…Finally baskets will be legal…:stuck_out_tongue: . Exhaust sounds good, do we have a date for when it will be available?

I would say the best way to measure track would be measure from the outside of one tire to the inside of the other, assuming both tires are created equal…

#10

Thanks Carter. Seems like a good list!

For the camber, is there going to be some type of slotting allowance in case someone has a car that can’t quite get there?

Looking forward to 2008. Is it spring yet?

#11
#12

Carter Hunt wrote:

[quote].
-Fixed or adjustable camber plates.
-14"X6.5" wheels allowed.
-ATE Calipers may have brass guide bushings.[/quote]

Amen!

On the other hand, I JUST FINISHED SELLING ALL OF THESE. WTF! :angry:

#13

Hey, the basket weave thing just saved me some money! I still like the look of the Konigs though.

Newbie question, what is ATE calipers? I have Girlings on my car.

John

#14

Easy way to tell…All E30’s have ATE rear calipers. Only a few have them on the front. They mount with a 7mm allen wrench on a sliding pin guide.

#15

Carter Hunt wrote:

Carter, your latest post is 180 out. Is NASA going to provide a level garage area to measure camber, and tear out transmissions so we can weigh flywheels?

I would love to see a clarification on what rules can be enforced (with strict adherence to [ul]NASA[/ul] rules) by the series admin, and what would have to be protested? In other words, will my car be subjected to random flywheels weigh-ins (or camber checks) or does it have to come from a protest?

#16

Just curious, but what happens when someone builds a fully legal motor and dynos above the max allowed hp/tq?

#17

Victor Hall wrote:

[quote]
Is NASA going to provide a level garage area to measure camber,[/quote]

This shouldn’t be necessary as long as the cars that are checked are all measured in the same spot. The most logical spot to check the cars would be on the scales. This is supposed to be a level surface although it isn’t at every track.

#18

Craig Geiger wrote:

[quote]Carter Hunt wrote:

[quote].
-Fixed or adjustable camber plates.
-14"X6.5" wheels allowed.
-ATE Calipers may have brass guide bushings.[/quote]

Amen!

On the other hand, I JUST FINISHED SELLING ALL OF THESE. WTF! :angry:[/quote]

Unless Toyo adds the 14" tire size to there lineup of the new R888 tire this will not be an issue for you or anyone else using bottlecaps or basketweaves. I guess we will all have to have 15" wheels whenever or if they ever discontinue the RA1 tires.

#19

Jamie Halford wrote:

[quote]I like it.

What is the correct way to measure track? Measure center to center of tire prints after driving through water?[/quote]

This is explained in the new rules, to be published in the next day or so. They are going to NASA this afternoon (Pacific Time).

Track will be measured at the outside center of the tires where they touch the ground. After trying several different methods, we found this to be the quickest and easiest way to do it.

Take two short pieces of 2X4 and place them on the ground at the outside edges of the tires, at the hub. Mark the blocks at the hub line. Roll the car backwards and measure the distance between the blocks.

Carter

#20

Brenden Selvig wrote:

[quote]First, this all sounds great and I cannot wait to go racing…Finally baskets will be legal…:stuck_out_tongue: . Exhaust sounds good, do we have a date for when it will be available?
[/quote]

The prototype is being built now and we should have the production model ready the week after Thanksgiving.

Carter