Brake fading and brake cooling ducts

#1

What’s the experience people have had before and after installing brake cooling ducts? At my trip to CMP a couple weeks ago, my brakes started fading on the first session. After that session, I took it easy on them and didn’t have a problem for the rest of the day. Unfortunately, that put me about 12 seconds behind the current SpecE30 average lap times.

Do the cooling ducts fix that problem? I had brand new superblue brake fluid, freshly bled, and fairly new HT10 pads, so I’m pretty sure it was not a hydraulic/pad related problem. I’ve got all the stuff for the cooling ducts, just haven’t installed it yet.

John

#2

I got all wrapped up into brake cooling early in the year. There’s long posts on the issue both here and at BF.c. After trying a couple different backing plates, I fabbed my own solution using soup cans that pointed the air flow exactly where I wanted. Yes, soup cans. Poke around the threads and you’ll see the discussions.

After all of that I noted that Skeen doesn’t have any brake cooling at all. Which made all my effort and hand wringing look silly.

Which is no stranger to me.

#3

The ducts work…
but IMO theres no better way to get rid of fade than to upgrade your pad. I used to get a lot of fade w/ HT10 even at tracks like VIR. I switched to DTC and the fade went away. Even though they are more expensive per set, using DTCs ends up being cheaper since they last about twice as long.

#4

Great, I just bought two spare sets of HT-10’s.:frowning:

#5

I dunno. I ran HT10s without any ducting up until the middle of this year. I don’t really like the HT10s, but they seem effective enough. After talking with some brake folks, I decided to add some brake ducting, which I did back before Nationals. Not really sure it was necessary, but it eliminates some of the discoloration on the pads, which means they’re cooler, which means they work better. So I’m told.

#6

Be like Skeen…Don’t use the brakes and you don’t need no stinkin’ brake ducts. Seriously.

For cheap, effective brake ducts see the Factory Three guy.

I’ve had good success with HT10s. Some fade at CMP in July and Barber in June. Alas, I brake too much (see sentenance #1).

Regards, Robert Patton

#7

Patton wrote:

+1

If your HT-10 is fading, you are using the brakes too much.

As for the ducts, they do help in cooling and helping the pads and the rotors last longer.

Especially rotors. All my rotors that have cracked always have cracked on the outside platter where there is not a direct cooling. The inside platter always look so much better (much less hairline cracks) than the outside platter.

My inside pads are always slightly thicker than the outside pads.

#8

I don’t have extra cooling and personally don’t think you need it. With brand new HT10s I don’t notice fade… with well-used HT10s I do. I think this is more the limitation of the pad than the fact that I don’t have cooling. I noticed a lot of fade at RA in August, but this was after 4 events on the same pads and rotors. The rotors still look good, but the pads are getting pretty slim.

As mentioned before, if you’re experiencing a lot of fade you’re using the brakes too much (or you have worn out parts). Stay up-to-date on brake maintenance and you should be fine.

  • All that being said, if you DO want ducts, get the Factory3 package!
#9

Depends on your driving style.
Using the brakes more can be faster if you know what you’re doing. I left foot brake a lot which is very hard on brakes but makes me faster.
If you’re sacrificing a big chunk of lap time to save pads, you should invest in a higher-temp compound.

#10

Well, since I really don’t know what I’m doing out there, I’ll assume that I was probably braking too late and over heating everything. Once I backed off on it, I didn’t have a problem for the next 6-8 sessions. I was told that the speed will come with racing experience rather than track time.

I already have Chuck’s brake package, I just haven’t gotten around to putting it on yet.

John

#11

Brake as late as you can until it starts to negatively affect your exit speed. Braking earlier is probably just going to slow you down more.
You dont want to put yourself in a position where you have to sacrifice speed in order to save equipment.

#12

drumbeater wrote:

[quote]Well, since I really don’t know what I’m doing out there, I’ll assume that I was probably braking too late and over heating everything. Once I backed off on it, I didn’t have a problem for the next 6-8 sessions. I was told that the speed will come with racing experience rather than track time.

I already have Chuck’s brake package, I just haven’t gotten around to putting it on yet.

John[/quote]

Braking too late won’t necessarily overheat brakes. The way to overheat brakes is to apply not enough pedal pressure for too long of a duration. What you want to do is to brake at threshold for short durations. Braking at below threshold for longer durations not only builds more heat, but also reduces the amount of time spent “not braking”. And if you are not braking, you are cooling.

#13

Pah - brakes just slow you down.

In all seriousness, I’ve only ever overheated brakes when using pads that aren’t up to the repeated heavy stops at tracks where the gap between corners doesn’t allow enough cooling.

That said, after changing to EBC Blue (enduro) pads, and installing 2" ducting to the rear of the front discs, I’ve had no brake dramas whatsoever. But I am looking forward to trialling some PFC 01 & 06 compound pads in the near future.

#14

[quote]E30 Racing - Like Spec E30, but upside down!

www.e30racing.com.au[/quote]
Sorry since this is off topic and possibly already common knowledge but I had to check this out when I saw the australian address.
This is the coolest thing! The top 10 are doing laps within a second or two of each other around some really cool tracks.
DJS- is there already a thread where you compare this to American SE30?

#15

Off topic - I will try to post up a thread comparing the two categories sometime in the near future. Been a bit busy lately with car preparation!

#16

I’m looking for some brake duct plates and hose. What’s the best bang for the buck?

#17

Ducting is less important than it used to be - but buying some nice Brake Ducting from Summit racing might prove to be your best choice.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRE-RE206/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRE-RE2031/?rtype=10

This is what we used to run years ago when brake pads and fluid sucked ass

These days running Motul 600 and some nice pads by your favorite vendor (Perf Friction/Hawk/Raybestos/Ferodo/Pagid/Carbotech) will net you a very hard pedal all through a race.

Admittedly California tracks are easy on brakes and are forgiving to poor braking technique, but you wouldn’t need to go over the top to ensure good braking with proper maintenance of the system (knowing that your Master, Lines and Calipers are all in top notch condition)

#18

Fish -

I thinks lot of us got the backing plates, ducts and the rest of the hardware from Chuck during the Factory 3 days. Now that’s kaput, so I don’t know the best source.

#19

i don’t have any sort of ducts and my brakes are per…um never mind.

#20

These look sexy

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AAF-ALL42115/