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ok, I queried David McIntyre on the class issue:
my question:
Dave’s response:
[quote]It’s the same class, so they wouldn’t have to, but I’d like them to in order to track participation.
It’s up to T&S. We don’t do the T&S at approximately 25% of our events, and it’s hard to get them to do anything.
So, it’s hard to tell…[/quote]
bruce
Hello Robert, I was somewhat offended that you did not include me in the likes of Billy Jack and Hinckly, etal but Oh well. I have raced with NASA all season and not done a single CR event. GTS has been a blast and I love to beat up on the 944’s. The problem is that Spec E30 has not gotten a strong hold in the OH/IN region that I am mostly in. Al offered to find me a car and some boot to trade for the 635 race car. I don’t see that CR is doing any favors to the SE30 crowd as of yet. SE36 seems like a big money pit as well with al Flywheels and all. They seem to have a hard on about upper front shock mounts and I am not sure what that is all about.
I would love to just take my ITS car and convert to SE30 but I am not even sure what all the misc. parts that are missing are, such as the covers behind the headlights. Also, I would need to get the lights working and find a stock instrument cluster. I am not sure all the wiring is even there to hook it up.
Anyway, I am still trying to figure out how to get into the SE30 class and drum up some competition in OH/IN
Michael O.
ilateapex wrote:
[quote]
Anyway, I am still trying to figure out how to get into the SE30 class and drum up some competition in OH/IN
Michael O.[/quote]
I’m building a car, and nationals is at mid ohio so you better get cracking, it won’t be too long before OH/IN starts to get going. B)
Well If Simon is going to play how can I not. I will be at Nationals in my ITS car running GTS1. Actually, with Simon in the game I am a little scared.
Michael O.
leggwork wrote:
[quote]at this point, it does not appear se30 would have its own class. We would run as E30/KP - I don’t know if that will show up on the T&S results or not such that we could "manually" separate ourselves from the KP group.
cheers,
bruce[/quote]
"Manual" sorting after the fact is common when we combine clubs for autocrossing. The host club handles registration, timing, scoring, collects the money, etc. The visting club grids wherebver the host puts them then pulls times out of the pile at the end the day, sorts them according to their own classes, and presents their own trophies.
I’d be happy to compete under these conditions.
Ed
Get it worked out Michael, we would love to have another hot shoe in Spec e30. Seeing you and future Spec e30 racer Simon Hunter go at in the ohio region would fun.
Its true that spec 30 will lose some potential canidates to spec e36 but that may be a good thing. it looked like we were about a huge amount growth in a pretty short time frame. Who knows what kinds of problems could have come from that. maybe this will slow it down just enough to keep under control. And I agree with you Mike a spec e36 car is still going to a pretty expensive car to run.
ilateapex wrote:
[quote]Well If Simon is going to play how can I not. I will be at Nationals in my ITS car running GTS1. Actually, with Simon in the game I am a little scared.
Michael O.[/quote]
Remember we will be in the same car now I won’t in a faster M3 anymore ;), should be fun. I was going to drive out for Nationals to watch but I’ve got other stuff going on that weekend. See you soon, hopefully I’ll be up and running next year.
Mike O, mere oversight as I’ve not seen you down in the southeast area. Are you comming to Road Atlanta with CCA in October? News from Billy Jack this past weekend is that he sold all of his BMW stuff and is going drag racing. Something about a run-in with one of the Watts racers at a CCA race. Regards, Robert Patton
The two items that SE30 allows that would put you into modified are adjustable FPR and lightweight battery.
Stuff like adjustable camber plates, delrin bushing, accusump are all allowed in prepared class.
And these rules are not finalized yet, and the chairman hinted that aluminum control arms for SpecE36 will probably be thrown out due to extra cost.
traqrat wrote:
Delrin bushings are legal in Stock class (Stock Rules, Page 28, Section I - Suspension bushing materials are free (other than upper front shock mounts - see B). Spherical bearings are not allowed).
I think there is a belief that, with Spec E36 (not E30) that the inclusion of E36 M3 Lower Control Arms is an added expense. I put them on my E36 318is - they are 7 dollars more per side! They are not Aluminum - they are steel, and are of a bit different geometry. E46 and E30 M3 LCAs are Aluminum - E36 LCAs are steel. There were 2 different parts - one for the 95, one for the 96-99 M3, but they were both steel.
DMoses wrote:
Right. I will definitely keep my allegence with NASA as they have supported us from the beginning. I might, however, do a 'CCA race once or twice a year, and only when there isn’t a NASA race closeby either in location or on the calendar.
And the NASA Schedule here in the Mid Atlantic/Southeast is MUCH better than the 'CCA schedule.
Carter
ps. NASA’s entry fees are better too.
leggwork wrote:
[quote]
Carter, will there be a National Spec e30 points system such that running in a CR spec e30 race would count that same as running in a NASA SE30 race?
cheers,
bruce[/quote]
For now, we’ll keep the NASA Regional Championships seperate. It would get too complicated (I’m really not that smart) trying to keep up with who did which race and with which sanctioning body. Plus, the NASA points system is consistent across all the NASA regions vs. the 'CCA points system.
Carter
mrussell wrote:
[quote]Oh my gosh, I have been waiting for news like this for a YEAR!!! I am so excited now! I know there will be little technicalities to work through, but this is fantastic for those of us who split our time equally between NASA and BMWCCA!!!
It is also a testament to the integrity of the class you have created with SpecE30![/quote]
Matt and all:
I really see Spec E30 cars doing a 'CCA race as a fun event. I also want everyone to know that this latest development will not affect our NASA based Spec E30 series in any way. We will not change any rules to suit any other sanctioning body. Our drivers can feel comfortable in their cars and in our rules.
No arrogance intended but we have a good program and it won’t change for any other group, regardless of the circumstances.
I hope you join us in Spec E30 and choose to race with NASA but everyone should know that cars will still be expected to comply with the Spec E30 rules if they want to race with Spec E30 at a NASA event. Consistency and stability are very important to us.
Carter
ilateapex wrote:
[quote]I read the rules today and was just talking to Al this weekend about finding me an E30 for Spec E30. Still trying to figure out if converting my ITS E30 or getting a whole new car would be easier. Anyway, Adjustable Fuel pressure regulators are not legal in prepared as well as maybe some of the control arm bushings you allow though not sure. Can’t think of the other one.
Michael Osborne
E30 325i
ITS/GTS1/KP[/quote]
Honestly, it would probably be easier to sell your car (if you don’t want two race cars) and build a Spec E30 car from scratch. A street car will have everything in it and these cars are very easy to build, especially for someone with your experience.
Carter
screwynewy wrote:
Yes, I think it will. But our manageable growth is exactly what we want and it will continue. Plus, our proven program is simple and stable and the Spec E36 program may go the route of other 'CCA classes - rules creep/changes every year. They are already talking about how it won’t cost too much when someone blows a motor. How many blown motors have we had?
And they will certainly cost more to build and race but that’s just the nature of a newer car.
Carter
Elephant4 wrote:
[quote]ilateapex wrote:
[quote]
Anyway, I am still trying to figure out how to get into the SE30 class and drum up some competition in OH/IN
Michael O.[/quote]
I’m building a car, and nationals is at mid ohio so you better get cracking, it won’t be too long before OH/IN starts to get going. B)[/quote]
I agree with Simon. We started with three cars in the Mid Atlantic and now have about 15 cars. The Southeast Region bumped-along with two or three cars for a year but now have about eight, with more on the way. California is getting started and once there are about 5 cars racing, it will take off.
If you guys can get about three or four cars to race in the OH/IN region, you’ll have ten cars within a year or two.
Carter
FYI, here are the Spec E30 items that I believe are not allowed in BMW CR KP class:
9.3.1.2.3. Rings may be replaced.
9.3.1.2.4. Bearings may be replaced.
9.3.1.2.5. Valve guides may be replaced.
(BMW currently says components must have same p/n as stock)
9.3.1.3.4. An adjustable fuel pressure regulator may be installed.
9.3.1.8.7. Cruise control mechanism may be modified or removed.
9.3.3.2. Batteries may be replaced.
(BMW says must be similar size and weight to stock)
9.3.4.2. Original exhaust system heat shields may be removed provided any plastic fuel tank is shielded.
9.3.5.1.6. One flat panel may be securely bolted to the top radiator support, providing it is no larger than 5.5" wide by 21.5" long, to direct airflow through the radiator. This panel may be folded over the stock metal seam on top of the top radiator support but must remain flat in every other way.
9.3.7.2. Power steering pump and associated plumbing may be removed.
9.3.7.4. Power steering belts may be removed.
9.3.10.9. Parking brake and associated mechanisms, including the parking brake console, may be removed.
9.3.11.3. Welding to create a "locked" differential is permitted.
9.3.13.9.2. Non-metallic inner fender liners may be removed.
9.3.13.21. Windshield washer fluid reservoirs may be modified.
9.3.13.27. Any undercoating or other protective materials may be removed from the underbody.
9.3.13.28. Hood and trunk pins, clips, or positive action external latches are permitted.
9.3.8.7.2. Spring pads may be removed.
9.3.12.8. The vibration damper may be removed.
9.3.13.16. Driver’s side outside mirror glass may be modified. Mirror housing must remain stock.
9.3.13.29. Side moldings, side reflectors, etc., may be removed and attachment holes may be filled.
Some are likely not too critical.
Cool suits are not explicitly mentioned in the BMW rules but likely not a problem using one.
so, if you’ve done any of the above, you will be able to run in E30/KP with BMW CR but not KP.
Happy to hear comments about a different interpretation of the rules.
cheers,
bruce
leggwork wrote:
[quote]I was going to sit down tonight and go through the two rule sets to figure this out myself. I thought I had done it to make sure my car could cross over to KP but I can’t find those notes right now. I’m pretty sure an Adj. FPR is one of them. Ability to remove the Power Steering may be another (not allowed in ITS either).
cheers,
bruce[/quote]
another interesting tidbit about racing with BMW CR - the 325’s are in KP, but the 91 318is is in LP - so, same SU class in Spec E30, but different classes in CR.
cheers,
bruce