BMWCCA decal requirements

#1

I’m trying to coord with BMWCCA to run one of their events at CMP. They are saying that I have to have BMWCCA decals, at a minimum the windshield TireRack decal. I would prefer not to swap out windshield decals several times per season.

I was told at BMWCCA Comp School last month that NASA Spec E30’s can participate in BMWCCA races with their NASA decals. They would be in a NASA Spec E30 class, and not KP. The BMWCCR seems to bear this idea (of total adherence to the NASA Class regs) but it’s ambiguous on the issue of decals. You guys that have participated in BMWCCA events, what was your experience? Did you have to put on a TireRack decal and/or the other 15+ BMWCCA required decals?

#2

I put them all on, it took a long time and many of them are ugly.

They’re also cheap stickers not the nice decals. If you want to do it right have an extra set of hands to help avoid air bubbles.

Make sure you coordinate your numbers with BMWCCR and NASA too.

When you have several free hours there is a thread on Bimmerforums about this (decals) in the Track Auto X section.

You may be able to get away with less (Chuck or Patton can chime in). I decided to be safe rather then sorry.

They make good ballast if you keep them low on the car.

#3

The decals are about keeping the sponsors happy. It’s highly unlikely BMW CR would want/let you not run them because series sponsorships generally outline this specifically.

As for the windshield banner, MA is the only region I know of that requires one (in NASA), so you can leave the tirerack one on otherwise. You could also make your own decal with both logos so that you could leave it on and please both parties. For the sides, you could probably get a magnetic panel with all the BMW decals on it that you can remove for other events.

#4

Ranger wrote:

[quote]

I was told at BMWCCA Comp School last month that NASA Spec E30’s can participate in BMWCCA races with their NASA decals. They would be in a NASA Spec E30 class, and not KP. [/quote]

So I’m confused… :dry:
Who told you that spec e30 would get it’s own class on not run with KP? (Not being a smartass, just curious).
According to the 2008 CCA rules:

CAR CLASSIFICATION
Stock and Prepared Classes
2. SCCA and NASA Classifications
F …Cars complying with NASA SpecE30 rules will be classified in the appropriate Prepared class.

That sure sounds like KP to me… anyone else have any insight?

Also, this came over as an RSS news item about decals and the changes upcoming for 2008. We had planned on purchasing the 1-color, die-cut decals as discussed in the bimmerforums thread that IndyJim mentioned… but are going to hold off to see how the info below pans out:

[i]…Club Racing also recognized that it must balance its claim for advertising space on cars in the program with that required by the owners/drivers for their personal sponsors.

Club Racing also determined that only a limited number of sponsorships were required to meet operational funding requirements.

The sponsorship program is limited to title sponsors (Series and Race School) and five premier sponsors with decal requirements for all participants. Additionally, class specific sponsors may have decal requirements specific to that class. Of course Club Racing also requires its logo decal and the number board decal. The number board decals’ continued use was reaffirmed by a majority vote at the 2007 strategic planning meeting; it was considered to create a polished/professional image that benefited the program.

One problem with the sponsor decals has been that when the sponsor program was created the maximum size of the decals was established arbitrarily and the allowed size was never revisited. Premier sponsors were allowed decals up to 84 square inches. Beginning in 2008 the sponsors have agreed to a maximum of 50 square inches for each decal. This still provides them with the exposure they need while leaving real estate for personal sponsors. There will be a short transition period through March 2008 on the number of decals and sizes and should be in place in April 2008.[/i]

#5

Re. Spec E30 running in their own BMWCCA class and not KP. The below text is an extract from my email to the BMWCCA folks. My interpretation is that it specifies a Spec E30 class that is defined by the NASA rules.

Perhaps I misunderstood the BMWCCR Car Classification section paragraph 2. “Vehicles competing in …the NASA SpecE30 class, may participate in BMW CCA Club Racing class rules or the applicable…NASA class rules, but not a combination of both.”
I thought that mixing NASA and BMWCCA’s decals requirements was something that BMWCCA was trying to avoid. Further, paragraph D states that SpecE30 types have to comply with our (SpecE30) series requirements. And since some of our regions require a windshield sponsor decal, I’d thought the CCR was ensuring that my car showed up it’s normal NASA livery.

email extract ends.

I couldn’t attach the BMWCCA CCR. Maybe it was too big. So I put it on our ftp site for easy grabbing. ftp://FileSharing.BrasselerUSA.com See page 25.

#6

IndyJim wrote:

[quote]I put them all on, it took a long time and many of them are ugly.

They’re also cheap stickers not the nice decals.

You may be able to get away with less (Chuck or Patton can chime in). I decided to be safe rather then sorry.
[/quote]

I chose to use the CCA number boards, to eliminate that hassle. For the windshield banner, Mike is correct that there is no required banner, so you could leave the tire rack on all season. Or, you could peel it off after a CCA event, which is what I’ve done. You could even leave the backing on, and apply the tirerack with clear tape (which I’ve also done).

The CCA sponsors have paid for their exposure, and though you could potentially ‘get away’ with less, you probably shouldn’t count on it nor expect it. Doesn’t matter how many people tell you not to worry about it; if the tech guy at your chosen event wants you to sticker up, you will. They are painful stickers to remove too; I had to clear off one side of my car to repair tire wall grunge, and getting the glue off was hell.

As for SpecE30 in CCA-KP, I tried for a year to figure out what that meant. I finally decided that no, it wasn’t a separate class, and no, it wasn’t any kind of subclass. I’ve never seen separate results classifications. It is multiple pages in the rules that amount to “hey specE30 cars, if you wanna run with us and get spanked by real KP cars, you are more than welcome to compete”. I did two CCA races in 2007, and though I didn’t stress my NASA-ness, I think I was just another KP car to them.

I just checked the CCA registration website, and in the dropdown list of classes, there’s no SpecE30 to be found. You’re in KP brudder!

#7

Chuck I hear ya. I’m certainly not the one to interpret BMWCCA rules, nor explain why they don’t seem to adhere to them. Not to mention that I’m some wet-behind=the-ears rookie. But it does seem like their CCR says that we get to come play, and they aren’t making it easy.

I don’t want to be snotty with them, I want to be a gracious participant. So the challenge is to ask them diplomatically…“we’re pretty good at this whole reading thing and your CCR says that a NASSA Spec E30 can run in it’s own class as long as it entirely adheres NASA Classification rules. And decals are part of the rules. So how about you let us come play?”

#8

Where in the BMWCCA Rules does it say “a NASA Spec E30 can run in it’s own class as long as it entirely adheres NASA Classification rules”?

I think it clearly states that a NASA Spec E30 will run in K Prepared. It will not be a competitive car in that class as compared to cars prepped as KP. But you can play.

#9

I think to play with BMWCCA, you add the BMWCCA Decals as required on the car, add the safety equipment that they require that is above what NASA requires (HANS, right side net, fire system) and you are done.

And I did mean right side net - I don’t need one for NASA, as I have a seat with a head basket, but I have a net in the car to conform to BMWCCA rules.

#10

jblack wrote:

[quote]Where in the BMWCCA Rules does it say “a NASA Spec E30 can run in it’s own class as long as it entirely adheres NASA Classification rules”?

I think it clearly states that a NASA Spec E30 will run in K Prepared. It will not be a competitive car in that class as compared to cars prepped as KP. But you can play.[/quote]

You see p25 of their CCR? Among other applicable passages is this one: “Competitors choosing to compete under SCCA or NASA Spec E30 rules must comply with all that series’ requirements…”

There is nothing ambiguous about “all that series’ requirements”.

It does go on to say that we will be classed with “appropriate prepared class”. So that’s a little confusing. But what’s clear is that we are to entirely adhere to our own class rules. And that means we don’t play musical decals. Or at least that’s the case I’m trying to make to BMWCCA.

#11

I am totally missing you here. What that means is you have to follow NASA rules for car prep, not BMWCCA Prepared rules. You can’t mix and match.

This applies to everything BUT Decals and Safety.

My quote is in response to your comment that you get to run in your own Spec E30 group. You don’t. You run in KP.

I know it doesn’t say that you have to follow BMWCCA rules for decals in the rules. But, trust me, you will need to have all the required BMWCCA decals to run. You can fight it, but you will not win that one.

#12

Decals aren’t part of class rules?

Re. KP. I agree that folks that have done this have been put in KP. But I’d contend that the BMWCCR is ambiguous on that point. In a couple places they talk about Spec E30 as if it was it’s own class. But in the end I really don’t care about what class I lose against. I just don’t want to play musical decals.

#13

No. Decals are not part of class rules. Decals are part of General Rules. You have to conform to all General and Safety rules. You are doing the Spec E30 rules in lieu of the Prepared rules only.

I don’t disagree with you on the classing thing - if one read it, one might be confused by the way the Spec e30 looks like a class. But they clarify it pretty well with saying that it is not a class, and will be classified in the appropriate BMWCCA classification. Remember, that section is not just referring to NASA Spec e30, but also SCCA cars. Otherwise, it would have been a lot easier to just put in KP.

#14

Ranger wrote:

[quote]But it does seem like their CCR says that we get to come play, and they aren’t making it easy.[/quote] EXACTLY!

I think you’ve gotten your answers through this thread.

The only things they will care about are safety items and decals. You know what you have to do for safety.

For decals, you obviously don’t want to resticker. Culling through all the thoughts here, seems like your best bets are to:

[ul]. Do your best to find one race # that works for both
. Use the CCA number boards on the side
. Plan to run the tire-rack banner (even if temporarily applied)
. I liked the idea of magnetized background(s) to affix all the CCA decals that you don’t care to see on a regular basis
. Put the CCA decals (that you don’t mind having) elsewhere on the car
. Have Fun![/ul]

#15

The point of the rule is to say that you most conform to one class rule.

Suppose you have CCA class X that allows supercharged V8s, but not racing slicks.
Suppose too that you have NASA class Y that allows 4 cylinders and any tire.
You can’t choose to run a V8 with slicks by saying your are in both classes. You have to choose one.

Safety and decals are different. I agree that you will not win that battle.

#16

jblack wrote:

[quote]No. Decals are not part of class rules. Decals are part of General Rules. You have to conform to all General and Safety rules. You are doing the Spec E30 rules in lieu of the Prepared rules only.

I don’t disagree with you on the classing thing - if one read it, one might be confused by the way the Spec e30 looks like a class. But they clarify it pretty well with saying that it is not a class, and will be classified in the appropriate BMWCCA classification. Remember, that section is not just referring to NASA Spec e30, but also SCCA cars. Otherwise, it would have been a lot easier to just put in KP.[/quote]

All we have to do to adhere to their general rules re. decals is identify our class near our #. So nothing in their general rules requires us to play musical decals.

I agree that it’s probably not win-able. A race steward can pretty much do whatever he wants. He is god and can choose to interpret the rules however he sees fit, as long as he can later justify his actions.

Which is how the world ought to be run.

#17

From the BMWCCA CR General Rule Section:

“Club Racing officials may require series and sponsor identification (decals) in specific size, contrast and placement to be displayed on cars before being allowed on track.”

Wanna put 50 bucks on the probability of the Club Racing officials requiring the BMWCCA decals on the car?

You don’t have to play musical decals. Put the BMWCCA decals on, put the Toyo and NASA decals on, and go race.

#18

jblack wrote:

[quote]From the BMWCCA CR General Rule Section:

“Club Racing officials may require series and sponsor identification (decals) in specific size, contrast and placement to be displayed on cars before being allowed on track.”

Wanna put 50 bucks on the probability of the Club Racing officials requiring the BMWCCA decals on the car?

You don’t have to play musical decals. Put the BMWCCA decals on, put the Toyo and NASA decals on, and go race.[/quote]

That’s a potentially significant quote. Of course “may require” is not “require”. But we’ve probably beat this to death. If I couldn’t make a case compelling enough to convince my own brothers, what hope have I of convincing them? Maybe when my car gets dinged up I’ll be more inclined to put on 15+ more decals.

#19

Ya know, you have options here. You don’t have to put the ugly huge stickers on. Read this post http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=735942&page=3&highlight=decals+club

Brad O from Evosport shows what you can do with that green section in the BMWCCA rulebook. His car is beautiful (could be better if it was an E30 - but who’s perfect?). You can do it tastefully, without looking all NASCAR. The only sponsor that didn’t play along is VAC - I plan to put their decal on a magnet, and put it on only when needed (and not buying any more of their stuff). Gotta vote with the checkbook.

And it is 15 decals for BMWCCA
And it is 8 decals for NASA
Plus Number boards and front and back numbers

And possibly a rookie X

And there is an upcomming Spec E30 one coming…

Ouch!

#20

Decal guys…take a deep breath and relax.

Follow C Taylor’s advice and clear tape the Tire Rack decal to the front window. Cut it off after the event and save it for the next. Put a good representation of the CCA stuff on the back/side windows. Make friends with the race stewart. Put the balance of the decals all over the car and watch 'em blow off (see, you put the on wet and they WILL blow off).
Have fun, Robert Patton