2008 Rules v10, Jan 22 comparison to 2007

#21

Patton wrote:

[quote]Scottmc, don’t bite your tounge, there are some really positive changes/clarifications in the 2008 rules. Look at the following:

9.3.8.2.1 Camber front is speced at3.5 max
9.3.8.2.2 Ditto rear
9.3.8.1 Fixed camber mounts are okay
9.3.10.10 Guide pins are okay
9.3.13.30 Window film is okay
9.3.8.15 Skid plates are okay

Although it may be hard to believe after my exuberant position on Exhaust Gate 2007, I’m going to look for the good stuff in '08.

So far,so good(literally).

Now, pick up the phone and call Chuck Taylor at Factory 3 and get youself a skid plate and some window shield film.

Regards, Robert Patton[/quote]

Robert,

It’s not the additions that bug me so much as the subtractions or flat out changes.

I’ll get over it. It’s just so :S to keep up with all the changes and redirection of what was OK but now not so much…

Is the beer is half full or half empty?
Either way… it’s not a full beer. :silly:

I wish you had posted about the skid plates earlier… I just received so raw material from McMaster. Guess I’m going to make my own.

As for the window film. It’s on my list. I have a spotless windshield in the garage. It won’t go in with out the film.

David,

you make some great points. Look like we may need to spec the bar, part number and supplier.

#22

dmwhite wrote:

[quote]fron’t sway bar question:

if you are allowed to run any 22mm front sway bar, why does it have to be non-adjustable?

what’s going to stop someone from having a variety of 22mm front bars to test/use OR several RD bars with different hole configurations welded up so each one is “non-adjustable” yet each one has a different stiffness? what does this rule really accomplish?

why allow adjustable rear bars but not adjustable front bars?

why not spec out the front and rear bars so everyone has the same (spec) bars?

just trying to get a grasp on the logic of the rule…[/quote]

You IP guys have too much fucking money!:laugh: I’m cheap. I’ve got one ST bar. It’s legal. It works. I don’t test. I don’t touch it. I suck it up at the back and have fun.

Sasha

#23

Ex36 wrote:

HAD…we spent it all on our cars :wink:

#24

David, you’re right we need a spec bar. What’s the point of a spec suspension if you can screw with the bars. I think they tried to address it some what in the new rules but it is obviously still not perfect. I think the one reason for not spec’n the bar is the uproar it will create for all the people who don’t have the spec bar whatever it is (see spec exhaust :laugh: ). Even with just the ireland and ST bars you have a quite a few different combinations you can try with just those 2. Even though they are the same diameter they are a different stiffness if thats the right word. Throw in the RD bar and you have even more possibilities. And finding the right combo does make a difference. Its an area I’m still playing with.

#25

After years of lobbying, see the revision to rule 9.3.9.3: 14"x6.5" wheels are now allowed! I thought this one would get a great reception from the racers. Yes, we can now use our basketweave wheels.Yeah.

Guess this one was a no-starter 'cause the Toyo folks don’t make a R888 tire in 14" size. Better late than never?

On a positive note, you guys should strongly consider the skid plate and window film protetion that are now specifically allowed. I’ve stayed below the radar screen and used both for several years.

The Factory 3 guy has 'em in stock. Chuck’s #678-358-5732

Regards, Robert Patton

#26

Patton wrote:

[quote]After years of lobbying,see the revision to rule 9.3.9.3: 14"x6.5" wheels are now allowed! I thought this one would get a great reception from the racers. Yes, we can now use our basketweave wheels.Yeah.

Guess this one was a no-starter 'cause the Toyo folks dont make a 888 tire in 14" size.Better late than never?[/quote]

Seems if we are explicitly allowed to use a 14" wheel, yet the R888 isn’t available in 14", we ought to be able to use a 14" RA-1 until the 14" R888 does become available.

#27

Ranger wrote:

[quote]Patton wrote:

[quote]After years of lobbying,see the revision to rule 9.3.9.3: 14"x6.5" wheels are now allowed! I thought this one would get a great reception from the racers. Yes, we can now use our basketweave wheels.Yeah.

Guess this one was a no-starter 'cause the Toyo folks dont make a 888 tire in 14" size.Better late than never?[/quote]

Seems if we are explicitly allowed to use a 14" wheel, yet the R888 isn’t available in 14", we ought to be able to use a 14" RA-1 until the 14" R888 does become available.[/quote]

Ranger,
What makes you think rule should apply logic?

#28

TOYO have assured the powers that be at NASA National (which mandated the June 2 cutover vs. a phased overlap period) that there will be 14" R888’s prior to June 2.
bruce

Ranger wrote:

[quote]Patton wrote:

[quote]After years of lobbying,see the revision to rule 9.3.9.3: 14"x6.5" wheels are now allowed! I thought this one would get a great reception from the racers. Yes, we can now use our basketweave wheels.Yeah.

Guess this one was a no-starter 'cause the Toyo folks dont make a 888 tire in 14" size.Better late than never?[/quote]

Seems if we are explicitly allowed to use a 14" wheel, yet the R888 isn’t available in 14", we ought to be able to use a 14" RA-1 until the 14" R888 does become available.[/quote]

#29

Scott, go ahead and get some RA1s. You’ll use up the tread by June. I promise.

And, if the tread is not gone by June…Well you’re not going fast enough. Thus no one will care what kind of wheels and tires you’re running.

Oooh, that is tough to realize 'cause I can make a set of RA1s last a whole year. Guess I’d better learn to drive.

Have fun, Robert Patton

#30

Patton wrote:

[quote]Scott, go ahead and get some RA1s. You’ll use up the tread by June. I promise.

And, if the tread is not gone by June…Well you’re not going fast enough. Thus no one will care what kind of wheels and tires you’re running.

Have fun, Robert Patton[/quote]

Lol. Roger that.

#31

If the $175.00 exhaust is causing such fits of rage in some racers, imagine what a required bar set will do - at $350.00 or more.

Yes, we should have required a bar set from the beginning. And we may go to a required barset in the future. However, if that happens, it will only happen after a looooong grace period.

Regarding the welding of holes to eliminate the adjustment on the front bar, we strongly suggest racers use a barset that has a front bar with one hole on each side, from the factory.

We added the “unmodified” wording because some racers were trying some funky things with their bars. Technically, if there is no specific allowance of a modification (this includes not just the BMW factory parts), the part should be left as it came from the factory - regardless of the factory. Remember, one of our goals is that racers can bolt on simple parts and go racing. No, it’s not perfect and yes, some will find loopholes (and some will outright cheat) but we will do our best considering our limited budget (the Spec E30 National Budget is a whopping $300.00 right now) and our limited time during race weekends. We will address the issues that we feel are most important.

Yes, the bar situation is difficult and I seriously doubt anyone is going to be disqualified for welding holes shut.

Personally, if I had bought a barset that has multiple holes in the front bar, I would buy a front bar from a well-known manufacturer that has one hole on each side.

Carter

#32

Carter wrote:

[quote]If the $175.00 exhaust is causing such fits of rage in some racers, imagine what a required bar set will do - at $350.00 or more.

Carter[/quote]

Carter,

Thank you for the time and effort invested. I think the difference with the bars versus the exhaust would be that given the under-damped nature of the bilsteins, the sway bars are a significant portion of the handling for these cars. For that reason, it is my opinion that people would be more willing to comply with a spec bar (ie have to spend a little money), because of the perceived benefit of a level playing field for suspension versus something like the exhaust topic where many of us are not sure that it truly matters that much.

One final note on the exhausts, I think that for people who prefer it, there should be an option of a different exhaust that is quieter, even if it is more restrictive. With such a set-up (whether stock or something like a very cheap Remus that is less than stock) people who drive to the track have an option that provides some insulation from attracting the police and for some racers that might be starting out (DE and then racing) would help them to listen to their cars (tires, engine, etc) as well as provide another level of safety in being able to hear traffic on track.

Jon

#33

Carter wrote:

I, um, know someone who tried to do exactly that, and Mr. Ireland sent him the wrong bar (the 3-holer) and then refused to exchange it, and then said, “just weld it,” and then said “we rarely even build the single holer,” and then said, “specE30s are not real racecars, they just think they are,” and then said some things about SE30 organization that my friend asked me not to repeat.

Kind of gave new meaning to the term “supporting vendor.” So anyways my friend welded the extra holes in his bar and ran happily at the back of the pack.