0 Oil Presure

#1

So my car is finally back on the ground after being on stands too long. Went to start it and it fired right up and fell into a nice idle. Not bad not for running for more then 6 months.

But I have no oil pressure. I let the car run for maybe 20 seconds on two separate attempts. Factory oil light is on and my aftermarket gauge reads 0. The only item touched under the pan was to install a new OEM oil pump and a new Poore Pan so I can keep oil pressure on track. I put the new one on exactly as the old one came off. I am not even sure you could do it wrong. But maybe I did. The car used to show oil pressure in about the time it takes to look at the gauge after the engine fires as I always check after it comes to life.

As to not let the car run w/o pressure what is the procedure for priming the oil system with a drill. I have read on here people can do it and I think its via the distributor cover by the dipstick but am not 100% sure. Can someone chime in?

Ranger didn’t you have some type of 0 oil pressure issue after a rebuild once and sorted it out. I cant seem to find the thread.

I just hope I don’t need to pull the pan down. Will be a real bear with the new pan and the subframe and suspension bits in the way. It will also end my chance of getting the car on track for a shake down before winter.

Thanks

#2

is the pump shaft laying on the floor somewhere??

remove the sender and the coil lead and crank over until oil comes out…I changed my oil pump this year and did not prime, but turned it over on the starter before putting fire to it…

Al

#3

As you noted there is a cap on the driver side of the block, but if it’s never been off before, it will be stuck in there pretty good.

Tools.
Impact wrench or heavy duty drill.
2’ of socket extensions.
Allen head sockets. I think it’s a 6mm, but have other sizes handy.
Big channel locks.
Torch.

The cap doesn’t screw in, it’s just a friction fit. Don’t attempt to pry it up, you’ll just chew up aluminum. The trick is to get it turning a little with the channel locks. Try to wiggle it a few degrees to-and-fro, while applying some “up” pressure. If you can’t get it to wiggle, or it doesn’t start coming up and off after 5min of this, then it’s time to get more aggressive.

More aggressive: Use the torch to heat up the block around the aluminum cap. Don’t apply the torch to the cap. Once the block is good and hot, put an icecube or two in/on the cap for 30-60secs. Then wiggle the cap and try to get it off. Before it comes off completely, use a towel to remove the access water in the cap so it doesn’t go into the pan.

Once the cap is off, carefully clean around it. Then pull the gear out and insert the 6?mm hex socket and extensions. Then use the impact wrench or heavy duty drill to turn the oil pump shaft that should be visible once you remove the gear. Note that my light duty drill started smoking one time when I did this. The drill needs to turn CW, so right-hand rule as if you were threading something down.

Once oil starts flowing the drill’s sound will change because it will get resistance. Soon thereafter if you look down where the hex socket is you will see a flow of oil from the front of the engine towards the rear. That’s the oil supply coming out of the intermediate bearing and on to the gears.

If you’ve run the drill at high speed for 60sec and you see no oil, you might have a problem. 2 min and you definately have a problem.

Our oil pump is pretty durable. I’d be suspicious of the oil pressure relief valve, the big cylindrical one that screws into the bottom of the block, before I’d suspect the oil pump.

I have several known good used oil pumps and oil pressure relief valves. $100 shipped and one of each could be yours.

I bet that you have an oil cooler and the engine just didn’t have enough time to fill up all the oil volume. You’re going to put the drill on and within 60secs, you’ll see that oil flowing on to your hex socket.

Another alternative is to pull the spark plugs and disconnect the harness connector to the injectors. Then run the starter a bit. No plugs means reduced load on starter and bearings. Disconnecting the injectors means no fuel dumping into cylinders that will just flood them and dilute your oil. I like driving the oil pump tho, because it’s a comfort to actually “see” the oil flowing.

#4

FARTBREF wrote:

[quote]is the pump shaft laying on the floor somewhere??

remove the sender and the coil lead and crank over until oil comes out…I changed my oil pump this year and did not prime, but turned it over on the starter before putting fire to it…

Al[/quote]

No, I only have one old oil pump and one old shaft. So the two new parts are in the car. I double checked that before the pan went back on.

#5

did you put oil in?

#6

Thanks Ranger. Got the proecedure now.

Torch huh. It looks like that cap has been on there since 89 so I bet its good and stuck. Maybe I will pull the coil wire and injector relay and crank it a bit first and abuse my starter. If that does not work I go after the cap next.

Yes the car has a oil cooler but that was not drained. I only pulled the pan of and swapped the oil pump for new. Rest of the work was suspension bits and electronics refresh.

I would be shocked if its the new oil pump.

The pressure relief valve worked fine before so I don’t think sitting with the pan off for a week in a garage could hurt that. The pan was notched for clearance of the valve. If the pan is touching it could that keep it form working. I have no idea how that works or if the pan is interfering with it. Pan seemed to fit fine when I installed it but I know I had move it around the valve on the way to the block.

#7

andrew240z wrote:

Yes, 7 quarts put it at about 3/4 up the dip stick. I remember Paul mentioning it should work wine with 7 qts.

#8

mahoneyj wrote:

[quote]andrew240z wrote:

Yes, 7 quarts put it at about 3/4 up the dip stick. I remember Paul mentioning it should work wine with 7 qts.[/quote]

There’s your problem… try beer :wink:

#9

mahoneyj wrote:

[quote]
The pressure relief valve worked fine before so I don’t think sitting with the pan off for a week in a garage could hurt that. The pan was notched for clearance of the valve. If the pan is touching it could that keep it form working. I have no idea how that works or if the pan is interfering with it. Pan seemed to fit fine when I installed it but I know I had move it around the valve on the way to the block.[/quote]

I don’t see how the valve touching anything is going to affect it’s function. It is normally closed. A piston inside of it will open up at about 68psi, but nothing on the outside moves. The piston is entirely inside of the contraption. In order to fit the symptoms, something would have to push the piston against the spring, and then lock it there. Some debris might make the piston catch partially open, but debris won’t make it fully open. For that to happen the spring would have to fail, or the piston fall out (which would require some crimps be removed).

#10

Jason,

I was able to remove my cover with some persuasion and was not all that difficult. If your cranking the motor does not get the result I would definitely go to the cover. Once the cover is off then you can be assured that the oil pump drive shaft is in place. Also, you’re sure that the pump was seated to the block right? If not, the galleries will not build pressure.

Good luck!

#11

If you are running an IJ crank scraper, the early ones had to be clearanced for the oil pump. Most people just clearanced the back of the oil pump mounting boss. If that was done, and not duplicated on the new pump, there will be no seal at that point, which is the pressure side of the pump. If Ranger’s process does not work, pull the pan and check the fit. CB

#12

PDS wrote:

[quote]Jason,

I was able to remove my cover with some persuasion and was not all that difficult. If your cranking the motor does not get the result I would definitely go to the cover. Once the cover is off then you can be assured that the oil pump drive shaft is in place. Also, you’re sure that the pump was seated to the block right? If not, the galleries will not build pressure.

Good luck![/quote]

Yes, it was seated to the block right. I remember noticing how nicely all the machined surfaces fit together as I was installing the new one.

#13

cwbaader wrote:

I am going no scraper with this new pan.

I am hopping a combination of cranking and then priming via Ranger instructions if necessary will get the job done.

I hope that solves it. Its hard to believe it would take that much priming to get pressure since I only pulled the pan and the oil pump. I would think that pretty equivalent to an oil change at worst. My car show oil pressure quickly after firing after an oil change. I am going to try to get some time on this tonight as I need to get the car on a trailer in the AM.

Thanks everyone for the input.

#14

Decided to prime with drill vs crank it over. Already a bit paranoid after the 20 seconds or so it ran w/o oil pressure. May have already hurt the bearings a bit so why hurt it more.

I followed Scott’s instructions and they were right on. Almost reached for the torch and the aluminum cap just started to budge and finally came off. Then a few minutes with the drill and oil started to squirt out. Got it all back together and instant oil pressure under fire.

For those who will do this in the future it helps to remove the MAF sensor and airbox to make room for hands and tools.

Shot below of the shaft w/o the cap in place for people who are visual.

#15

Ranger wrote:

Nice.

It really took “a couple minutes” to prime? With the drill or impact wrench running pretty fast? That’s a long time. Could your oil cooler have emptied out? Since it’s lower then the oil filter I wouldn’t expect it to empty out with an oil pan change.

20 secs with no load and reasonably low rpms isn’t going to hurt the bearings any.

Decent oil with good anti-wear properties would be a plus tho.

If it was me, I’d use a crankscraper. It has a role not only helping create a “still” oil volume at the bottom of the pan, but it also reduces the crazy whirling hurricane of oil around the crank. Cheap insurance and a pony. Not everyone agrees the scrapers are necessary, but I gotta tell you, with all the crazy oiling stuff I did, the only time things went crazy is when I did not use a crankscraper. I know it’s a Poore pan. They have their charms. But you could buy 6 scrapers for what the custom pan costs. Spending a little more and putting a scraper in would be the smart and cautious thing to do.

#16

[quote]Ranger wrote:
It really took “a couple minutes” to prime? With the drill or impact wrench running pretty fast? That’s a long time. [/quote]

I incorrectly stated the time. It was more like 5 or 10 seconds at a low RPM. I think if I had let the car run for that same time I would have gotten oil pressure. But I learned one more helpful thing on these cars.

Since the pan is in w/o scraper I am going to give it a shot and keep an eye on the pressures. I was told the pan wold work fine w/o the scraper. So I am trying that first. I will shake the car down at a HPDE at New Jersey Motorsports Park. I know there are a few turns there guaranteed to drop the pressure so it will be a good test.

#17

i run the pp pan without scraper (as per paul’s recommendation) and no issues at njmp or other tracks with hard left turns. when are you going to NJMP?

#18

mahoneyj wrote:

[quote][quote]Ranger wrote:
It really took “a couple minutes” to prime? With the drill or impact wrench running pretty fast? That’s a long time. [/quote]

…and keep an eye on the pressures. [/quote]

That will never work. In terms of oil starvation the only times that matter are those fleeting few seconds that you are at high g. And when you are under high, you are too busy to carefully watch a gauge. Have to use a data logger.

#19

kishg wrote:

I am going to be there Oct. 22 - 24 with PCA.

#20

Ranger wrote:

[quote]mahoneyj wrote:

[quote]
…and keep an eye on the pressures. [/quote]
That will never work. In terms of oil starvation the only times that matter are those fleeting few seconds that you are at high g. And when you are under high, you are too busy to carefully watch a gauge. Have to use a data logger.[/quote]

If your threshold of low pressure is between 10 and 20 psi it can. At Thunderbolt circuit at NJMP there is a rather abrupt left hander that killed the pressure of my car especially if your add a little extra abruptness. It just fell like a rock to 10 psi.

Thats how I confirmed I had an issue. Not easy but you can do it. I heard some others had good luck with Paul’s pan and installed it w/o scrapper per Paul’s recommendation. Seems to be working for Kish. Hopefully it will for me.

I will perform the same approach and see if my pressure drops.

No data loggers yet. I may play with them in the future. Still working on the basics with this car for now.