VIR Report: The death of engine 6?

#21

jtower wrote:

[quote]Ranger wrote:

one of my friends was behind you when it happened, he commented that he could clearly see your warning light :)[/quote]

Lol. A week or two after I first put in the warning lights I had to move the car from the back garage out to the street so I could put it on the trailer. It was night and I’d not turned on the garage light. When I turned the key, sitting there in the dark, the oil pressure lights went on and about burned out my retinas.

Re. bad wiring. Nothing is impossible, but the warning lights and OP sensor are electrically separate.

DDO-I’m kinda prowling around for a 3rd motor, or at least a bottom end. I’d like to have a bottom end with fresh bearings in the wings. How much you want for it?

#22

Yes, OP drive shaft can be pulled out of the block through the distributor hole. If I remember correctly, it is a 6mm shaft. If you have a blockage in the oiling system, the bypass valve will open and all the oil will go to the sump. If you have trash in the oil pump, this shaft is the weak link. CB

#23

Yes, OP drive shaft can be pulled out of the block through the distributor hole. If I remember correctly, it is a 6mm shaft. If you have a blockage in the oiling system, the bypass valve will open and all the oil will go to the sump. If you have trash in the oil pump, this shaft is the weak link. CB

#24

Scott, I’ve mentioned this before!! Maybe its your intricate 10’ of oil line, remote oil filter system that is causing your problems. Just a thought!!

You’ve got more money in engines than I do in my whole car.

Also I’ve got a couple bottom ends you are welcome to

#25

87isMan wrote:

I know that is a coded message for IndyJim, but he doesn’t come around here anymore. He’s a Continental Challenge guy now.

#26

Steve D wrote:

[quote]87isMan wrote:

I know that is a coded message for IndyJim, but he doesn’t come around here anymore. He’s a Continental Challenge guy now.[/quote]

^ Chester here always has something to say

#27

[quote]Ranger wrote:

DDO-I’m kinda prowling around for a 3rd motor, or at least a bottom end. I’d like to have a bottom end with fresh bearings in the wings. How much you want for it?[/quote]

at this rate you need a few fresh rebuilt motors to take to the track. which means you need your own crew and an enclosed trailer. the logical conclusion is to then have a spare car (or two). At which point you might as well go Pro and run in Conti Challenge :stuck_out_tongue:

#28

Re. hoses and/or plumbing complexity could cause problems. Believe me, I’ve considered this. But try as I might I can’t come up with a scenario where my remote oil filter, larger oil cooler, and accusump cause problems. Hoses do flex and that could delay the onset of oil pressure increases. But the hose is also rated a helova lot higher pressure then I’m pushing it and the Accusump should happily handle any intermittant pressure drops.

Compared to high performance V8’s, our oiling system is a wuss. The oil pump doesn’t put out much volume and it’s checkvalve ensures that it doesn’t put out much pressure.

The only scenario I can come up with where the additional complexity could cause problems is due to start up oil pressure and me not having an oil thermostat.

Re. Moberg’s bottom ends. You sir are a terrific pal.

#29

Ranger wrote:

Ranger -

Is there a point at which the stock oil pump - designed for a +/-5 quart system volume - simply can’t pump enough volume to maintain pressure in a 8-10 quart system? That doesn’t answer the question of why the gauge went to 0. At what pressure does your oil warning light illuminate?

#30

Steve D wrote:

[quote]Ranger wrote:

Ranger -

Is there a point at which the stock oil pump - designed for a +/-5 quart system volume - simply can’t pump enough volume to maintain pressure in a 8-10 quart system? That doesn’t answer the question of why the gauge went to 0. At what pressure does your oil warning light illuminate?[/quote]

The oil pump doesn’t know how much oil is in the system. With a 2qt Accusump (actually holds 1.5qts of oil) I seem to be at the full mark on the stick with 7qts or maybe a smidgen more. I don’t run a quart over any more.

An oiling system could contain a thousand quarts and it wouldn’t matter to the pump.

In order to maintain OP the pump needs to see flow resistance. It can only pump so many liters/min. If flow resistance is low, say due to worn bearings, then system OP drops because of the pump’s inability to pump adequate volume.

It’s just like electricity. If you test your battery’s voltage you might get 12.8V. But if you short the two terminals (low flow resistance) lots of current will flow and the battery voltage will drop significantly. The battery can’t maintain the voltage (pressure) with such a low resistance load because the battery’s ability to maintain the flow rate (current) is limited.

My OP light fires at 20psi.

I’m wondering what’s going to happen the next time my oil is good and hot. I predict that this might reoccur. What if my OP checkvalve was dorked up such that when oil got good and hot the checkvalve started leaking like a sieve?

The only checkvalve in the system is the cylinder looking thing that hangs down from the block, right? Is there any kind of checkvalve on the pump itself?

#31

Here’s the oil path diagram from the factory manual.
[sorry - image was too large - small version posted below]

The numbers may be a little hard to read. From what I see, there are several places that flow resistance might not be where you need it to be. Aft of the pump we have (in order of flow distribution):

  1. pressure relief valve (before oil filter) (3a)
  2. oil filter safety valve (4a)
  3. main distribution to:
    a. head bearings (8)
    b. crank bearings (7)

Four good suspects. I hope it is the cheapest/easiest one!

#32

Does the manual have a picture you could post?

#33

#34

#35

That’s really interesting. I just spent about an hour studying this thing. I didn’t know, for example, that all the oil to the head goes thru the hollow rocker arm shaft rods. That’s would be why I ruined a head when a shop misplaced my rocker arm shaft retaining pin and the shafts were able to rotate, preventing oil from getting into the shafts.