Trackside Spares Package

#21

haha… good one chuck.

#22

Rain tires mounted and balanced on another set of wheels !!

#23

ABS relay (under the dash)
Brake Pedal Switch

#24

MidnightOilMotors wrote:

[quote]We usually run cars with a LOT more tire that pretty much require power steering, especially in longer stints… we’ve discussed removing it, but only briefly.

What does the pump and associated plumbing really weigh?[/quote]

Back off topic for a minute:

Just pull the power steering belt and see if you like the feel better on track. Takes a minute to remove and a minute to replace if you don’t like it w/o PS. I had it and removed it after experimenting w/o the belt. It was too light with the PS for my taste.

#25

mahoneyj wrote:

[quote]MidnightOilMotors wrote:

[quote]We usually run cars with a LOT more tire that pretty much require power steering, especially in longer stints… we’ve discussed removing it, but only briefly.

What does the pump and associated plumbing really weigh?[/quote]

Back off topic for a minute:

Just pull the power steering belt and see if you like the feel better on track. Takes a minute to remove and a minute to replace if you don’t like it w/o PS. I had it and removed it after experimenting w/o the belt. It was too light with the PS for my taste.[/quote]

I really need to do this. My steering feels great, and as far as I know, the PS still works. I’ve had manual steering track cars before, they felt no better than this car does now.

#26

Air flow meter
Spare brake lines
Clutch and resurfaced flywheel
Clutch slave cylinder
Brake master cylinder
Spare ECU
Spare battery cut-off switch

Really good list!

RP

#27

[quote]

I really need to do this. My steering feels great, and as far as I know, the PS still works. I’ve had manual steering track cars before, they felt no better than this car does now.[/quote]

Yes, but your engine is losing power to turn the power steering pump. I’m not exactly sure how much power is robbed by the pump, but it is certainly not needed and removes weight from the heaviest corner on most cars.

#28

FishMan wrote:

[quote][quote]

I really need to do this. My steering feels great, and as far as I know, the PS still works. I’ve had manual steering track cars before, they felt no better than this car does now.[/quote]

Yes, but your engine is losing power to turn the power steering pump. I’m not exactly sure how much power is robbed by the pump, but it is certainly not needed and removes weight from the heaviest corner on most cars.[/quote]
Our Lemons E30 has power steering but our race cars don’t. We just raced all weekend with the Lemons car so the feel of PS is fresh. And we don’t like it. It feels too light. This weekend I’m going to remove the PS pump and cap the box.

#29

Ranger wrote:

[quote]FishMan wrote:

[quote][quote]

I really need to do this. My steering feels great, and as far as I know, the PS still works. I’ve had manual steering track cars before, they felt no better than this car does now.[/quote]

Yes, but your engine is losing power to turn the power steering pump. I’m not exactly sure how much power is robbed by the pump, but it is certainly not needed and removes weight from the heaviest corner on most cars.[/quote]
Our Lemons E30 has power steering but our race cars don’t. We just raced all weekend with the Lemons car so the feel of PS is fresh. And we don’t like it. It feels too light. This weekend I’m going to remove the PS pump and cap the box.[/quote]
I’m all about that. The steering was way too light and the steering wheel is way too big. Hmm, I have smaller wheel that was on the M3 that I used to have. I need to check the hub and see if it will work on the car.

#30

Back to back dyno runs with only cutting the PS belt…7hp!! CB

#31

cwbaader wrote:

Is it our turn to call BS now? Isn’t 7 hp a damn strong kart motor? I find it hard to believe a properly functioning p/s pump could rob that much power.

Dyno evidence is not dyno proof.

#32

Steve, that was the seventh or eight dyno run, so I seriously doubt dyno scatter. Remember, the BMW PS system operates at about 1600psi. Chuck

#33

cwbaader wrote:

cwbaader wrote:

[quote]…I call bullshit.

Don’t believe everything you read. CB[/quote]

#34

7hp! Wow!

Cross-posting this on bimmerforums and r3v… deleting P/S on street cars will become all the rage, taking over from the CAI install and fan delete! :slight_smile:

#35

Just to give Chuck some more ammo to tell me I am a dumbass, you can get ~1600 psi at ~2 gpm with a 1 1/2 hp pressure washer. I could buy a power gain of 2 hp by removing a properly-functioning p/s pump. But incorrect data trumps a reasonable guess in this forum. :laugh:

#36

Steve D wrote:

1600psi at ~2gpm from a 1.5hp pressure washer is marketing foolishness, not engineering specs.

I’d contend that data trumps guesses unless the guesser makes a helova case otherwise.

Criticising Steve’s guesses now out of my system, I would have thought along the same 1-2hp lines. But I did some poking around the issue this morning and there’s a lot more seemingly smart folks saying 5-7hp, then the 1-2hp that me and Steve “my guesses are better then your data” DeVinney were thinking.

#37

Interesting. I’m planning to do a dyno session soon, and I still have PS, so will definitely do some comparative runs while I’m there.

#38

http://spece30.com/component/option,com_adsmanager/page,show_ad/adid,262/catid,1/Itemid,91/

#39

Ranger wrote:

[quote]Steve D wrote:

1600psi at ~2gpm from a 1.5hp pressure washer is marketing foolishness, not engineering specs.

I’d contend that data trumps guesses unless the guesser makes a helova case otherwise.[/quote]

Slightly more reliable than the Trussville Brain Trust:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argonne_National_Laboratory

See Page 3 of their report…
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/merit_review_2009/vehicles_and_systems_simulation/vss_17_fenske.pdf

Don’t be confused by the 0.5% figure. That is 0.5% of a total of 23% of the energy input. 0.5% / 23.0% = 2.2% of the power at the crank is lost to the p/s system. Assuming 15% driveline loss, our 160 rwhp is 188 crank hp. 2.2% is 4 hp. Interesting that they rate it the same loss as the cooling fan, the alternator and the water pump.

But what the hell do they know. It’s just some government lab.:wink:

#40

Steve, I love ya man, but that’s just silly. YThey’d be lucky to get within an order of magnatude trying to get absolute #'s from a school solution that showed generic relative #'s. The only way one is going to get good data on this is to test. Empirical data trumps estimates every time.

If energy at the wheels, for example, is 9.5%, that means 9.5% = ~150hp. Therefore 1% in the chart is ~15hp. That makes 0.5% power loss due to PS = ~7.5hp.