Timing Belt/Water Pump/Tensioner Question

#1

Thanks for the advice thus far as I slug through my timing belt project. I finally got the timing belt off after about 6 hours of work. I’m paying for this damn job next time. Here’s my next question:

I’m installing a new water pump, tensioner, and belt. In what order should I assemble these? Trying to get the pin and spring set between the water pump and the tensioner frustrated me last night for about 30 minutes, so I gave up. Then it started raining. :angry: I had installed the belt and the lower bolt on the tensioner and was trying to insert the water pump and spring last. Based upon my experience this was the wrong order.

Thanks,
Sasha

#2

Sasha,
You’re correct, that’s the wrong order. You want to put the water pump on first. then you can lightly bolt up the tensioner. Push the tensioner spring down with a screwdriver, and tighten it down so it’s held compressed. Then install your timing belt, and you can release the tension.

Do you have a manual you’re following? Bentley, or Haynes? I highly recommend one if this is your first timing belt.

It gets easier. Dave Pallister had my timing belt off in about 20 minutes (with a 5 minute cigarette break) when I broke a rocker arm at VIR earlier this year. Then again, that’s why he gets paid to do this work!!

Good luck,
-Vic

#3

As Vic Said, put the h20 pump first, then tensioner ( but don’t torque it down), belt goes next, and then pin and spring - make sure that pin sits properly in the h20 pump notch - then pivot the tensioner such hat pin engages the tensioner through the little hole.
it’s most difficult and time consuming doing this for the first time - next time it will much easier and quicker. :slight_smile:

Igor

Post edited by: igor, at: 2006/07/06 08:52

#4

Thanks Vic and Igor. I’m eager to get off work and go try it (well, not really, but I’ve got to get the car back together before VIR this weekend)! Man it sucks not having a garage. Timiing maintenance according to the map on weather.com is not a civilzed way to live.

Sasha

#5

HAHA - I hear you - I built the cage in my car in the dead of winter…there are some pictures somewhere of me shoveling snow off of the roof of the racecar - not fun.

I’ll be busy loading the car up for this weekend, but if you run into any snags, call my cell phone (301)792-8370.

-Vic

#6

Thanks for all the advice. After sticking with it over several days and through the rain I completed the job in about 9 hours total, and to my surprise everything worked! Cranking it up and having it come to life almost instantly with no bent valves or other issues was almost better than my first time! Now I’m ready to go beat the piss out of it at VIR! :laugh: Woohoo!

Sasha

#7

I will HIGHLY recommend that anyone wrenching on an E30, to go buy the Bentley Manual…While not perfect It will save you lots of headaches and gotchas. It is well worth the price. Even after about 12 years of fooling around with these cars, I almost always refer to the book to refresh my memory, look at the photos and mentally go over the steps in order they need to be done…of course, Installation IS the reverse of removal!!!
The book takes the long way sometimes but it is usually the better choice for the first time you do a procedure.

#8

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but I’m halfway thru my timing belt change - and I AM STUCK.

My engine did NOT appear to have the tensioner pin/spring that’s shown in the Bentley manual. There’s no evidence that it was ever there - on either the old water pump slot or the old tensioner ear. DO I REALLY NEED IT?

I installed the new tensioner with light pressure against the belt - did about 6 rotations clockwise, then applied some decent force against the tensioner to take up the belt slack - and tightened up the top and bottom bolts - while holding the tensioner against the belt.

SO - DO I REALLY NEED THE PIN/SPRING - OR NOT? I really don’t think it was there before.

Thanks

Jim

#9

OK - I’m going with Ranger did:

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73365&highlight=timing+belt+tensioner+spring

Maybe I should first ask… Ranger - did your engine survive the 75 to 90 degree belt twist method of setting belt tension ???

Still looking for input - thanks

Jim

#10

Jim,
I must admit I was stumped to when replacing my tensioner. I wasn’t sure how tight was tight since the Bentley made no mention of it. I’d prefer to use the spring however. :wink:

Not to hijack this ancient thread, but I just put in my rebuilt motor last night and got everything hooked up. Believe it or not she fired up on the first try. Darn amazing it was to hear her take the first breath. Only problem, water pump leaks. Dangit! So my question is, can the water pump be removed without taking off the timing belt?

#11

L8Apex wrote:

[quote]Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but I’m halfway thru my timing belt change - and I AM STUCK.

My engine did NOT appear to have the tensioner pin/spring that’s shown in the Bentley manual. There’s no evidence that it was ever there - on either the old water pump slot or the old tensioner ear. DO I REALLY NEED IT?

I installed the new tensioner with light pressure against the belt - did about 6 rotations clockwise, then applied some decent force against the tensioner to take up the belt slack - and tightened up the top and bottom bolts - while holding the tensioner against the belt.

SO - DO I REALLY NEED THE PIN/SPRING - OR NOT? I really don’t think it was there before.

Thanks

Jim[/quote]

the spring is what puts the correct tension on the belt. You do not want to run it any tighter. Order a new pin, spring and timing belt and do it again. Just my .02

#12

Chris_F wrote:

I’d be amazed if you can get the water pump out without moving the tensioner. BTDT on the leaky new water pump. My leak was due to not getting every last atom of the old gasket removed. The good news is that it’s a much faster process the 2nd time you do it :wink:

#13

laz wrote:

It’s even faster when it’s sitting on an engine stand, but what the hell, I’ve done everything else two to three more times than I should have.

The next rebuild is going to be a breeze.

#14

L8Apex wrote:

[quote]OK - I’m going with Ranger did:

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73365&highlight=timing+belt+tensioner+spring

Maybe I should first ask… Ranger - did your engine survive the 75 to 90 degree belt twist method of setting belt tension ???

Still looking for input - thanks

Jim[/quote]

I am everywhere, lol.

Running the timing belt without the tensioner spring seemed to work fine. It’s not that hard to make a decent judgement call on where to place the tensioner. The harder thing, for me, was putting on the timing belt. Until I learned the trick, it was a real struggle. So here’s the trick.

The belt needs to be on the crank pully and the crank needs to be a little left (towards passenger) of the timing mark. Put the cam pully at the TDC mark.

Slip the belt a little on to the right side (driver side) of the cam pully. Try to get a 1/4" width of belt on the cam pully and then try to get 2-3" of belt on, all at a 1/4" width.

Now turn the crank a little so the slack in the t belt is moved to the left side of the cam pully. When you do this, the crank pully should now line up with the timing mark. If it doesn’t go back and do the first part over.

Now with the slack on the left side put a 1/4" width of t belt on to the left side of the cam pully. You should now have a 1/4" of belt on all around.

Now turn the crank back a little to put the slack on the right side. Get some more t belt on to the cam gear. Now move the slack back the the left side. You should now be able to get the whole belt on.

#15

87isMan wrote:

[quote]L8Apex wrote:

[quote]Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but I’m halfway thru my timing belt change - and I AM STUCK.

My engine did NOT appear to have the tensioner pin/spring that’s shown in the Bentley manual. There’s no evidence that it was ever there - on either the old water pump slot or the old tensioner ear. DO I REALLY NEED IT?

I installed the new tensioner with light pressure against the belt - did about 6 rotations clockwise, then applied some decent force against the tensioner to take up the belt slack - and tightened up the top and bottom bolts - while holding the tensioner against the belt.

SO - DO I REALLY NEED THE PIN/SPRING - OR NOT? I really don’t think it was there before.

Thanks

Jim[/quote]

the spring is what puts the correct tension on the belt. You do not want to run it any tighter. Order a new pin, spring and timing belt and do it again. Just my .02[/quote]

agree with greg. i’d not try to tension without the spring/pin.

#16

Replaced waterpump gasket the other night without removing the timing belt. It only took me about 90 minutes to do. Removing the radiator, all coolant lines and grill kidneys made it an easy task. The only pain was installing the pump back with the tensioner. Maybe impossible to do by yourself, but a second set of hands made it a snap.

#17

Chris_F wrote:

It isn’t impossible to do single-handed, merely difficult.

Removing the radiator is a help, but I don’t see any advantage to removing the kidney grills.

#18

Hot tip on the spring and pin install. My 1st time that buggar poped off or out several times until I put some electrical tape on the tip of the pin-spring and left a little extra tap sticking out like a pull string for easy removal of the tape.:wink: