Thunder Roadsters

#1

I’m not trying to start a war, I’m just curious what we think can be done to make the situation better. I don’t believe either “side” is driving maliciously, but it seems to be a recurring problem.

I understand that they are having their own race, and despite the fact that I’ve never seen two of them actually racing each other, they’ve made it clear that they aren’t going to stop trying to pass us in hairy places, regardless of how close of a race we’re having.

My biggest complaint is that they are hard to see. Once they leave my mirrors I pretty much just clench my sphincter and pray I don’t feel a collision until they pass. I’m all for working with out of class traffic to get clean passes over with, but it’s a real challenge when it feels like they don’t want to work with you on it, and on top of that, you can’t see where they are when they make bonzai moves. I came within inches from killing the guy in the green one on Sunday when he decided the inside of the carousel was the best place to appear next to me.

#2

Pretty much the same thing could be said for Spec Miata’s. And if you think the Thunder Roadsters are hard to keep track of you haven’t been in a race with IMSA Lites, at dusk. The way to deal with these is to think ahead and give them clear and unambiguous opportunites for passes on lines they’d prefer. And a pointby can’t hurt.

#3

The problem that is specific to the Thunder Roadsters is that they carry a lot of speed through corners (or at least they think they can). They will take every opportunity to pass even when it’s not safe – just look at Tower’s Saturday Part Deux video where there was contact with Jones.

There was no way to work with the party involved to make that happen safely. He made a low percentage, arguably ridiculous move, and it didn’t work.

That being said, maybe we need to have more dialogue? Perhaps a Roadster Love Fest?

#4

In my opinion, Spec Miatas corner a hell of a lot more similarly to a SE30 than the Thunder Roadsters do (and they aren’t hard to see if you have good mirrors). One big difference is tires. I have suggested to Pantas several alternative Hoosiers or Toyos that are the same size tire as what they run now, but on the grippier end of what Hoosier offers. I am not optimistic, but there are options for those guys to pursue. If they race with other sanctioning bodies, getting them to change tires will be tough. My impression is most of them only race with us.

With stickier tires, they could corner at least as well as our cars. Given their scoot on the straights, that should eliminate the accordion effect we get with them.

As with all cars on track, don’t leave the door open if you don’t want someone to try the inside move.

I had to make a decisive move on the green & black Thunder Roadster on Saturday to let him know I didn’t want him to pass in a certain corner. He tucked in and passed on the next straight.

#5

[quote=“horched” post=56786]Perhaps a Roadster Love Fest?[/quote]Hey! That’s MY schtick. :laugh:

If we do it, better buy Budweiser. And pork rinds.

#6

IMO the problem is not one of car types, visibility or tires. It’s a human problem. Folks make low percentage moves because they’re excited, and it ruins someone’s day/week/month/year.

Some folks never return.

#7

[quote=“Steve D” post=56788][quote=“horched” post=56786]Perhaps a Roadster Love Fest?[/quote]Hey! That’s MY schtick. :laugh:

If we do it, better buy Budweiser. And pork rinds.[/quote]

be sure to ask jay marks to do his darrel hamilton impression

#8

What was the number of the T-Roadster that hit Brian? I would think it appropriate for him to meet all Spec E30 drivers at once and be strongly encouraged to find some where else to race. There should be no allowance for his on track driving and attitude.

#9

Easy now. We’ve whacked some other Lightning racers over the years too. If we start talking too harsh, we’ll be pretty chagrined when we’re on the other side of this issue.

We have a system in place to discourage this kind of behavior. IMO everyone in Lightning would be best served if we focused on helping that system work. That is to say, make sure that Jim is finding out about the aggressive drivers, show him video to bolster the seriousness of the situation, and follow up to ensure that the miscreant got chewed on and points assigned.

People are complicated. I think that Jim is a really nice guy that finds it out of character to be the hard-ass. Some folks you have to encourage them to lighten up a bit, and others you might encourage to be meaner.

Side note. It chaps my butt is that there is no allowance for the innocent bystander. You could be sitting in your dead car behind a flag tower and if someone slides by and hits you, you get a point.

#10

This maybe a stupid question, but why won’t they get moved up to Thunder group? They are running STR2, which is suppose to be very quick. Hell, they got Thunder in their name!

#11

[quote=“ukrbmw” post=56849]This maybe a stupid question, but why won’t they get moved up to Thunder group? They are running STR2, which is suppose to be very quick. Hell, they got Thunder in their name![/quote]I have talked to Pantas about this. His opinion is that due to their light weight and the heavy weight and high speed of cars in Thunder, if there were an accident (what are the chances, right?) that the TR driver would be much more likely to come out on the short end.

While I wish they would race in another group, I understand Jim’s reasoning. I think the best solution is to have a NASA spec tire for them. Of Hoosier’s 12 or 13 categories of stickiness, they run a tire that is 3rd least sticky (or so). I have asked that they be required to run the stickiest tire available (or at least as grippy as our crap tires). I am but one voice.

If they had cornering grip, we would have few problems except the fact that they would come rocketing out of the corners so fast we’d all have to be more heads up. As it is now, you only need to look for them halfway down the straights.

#12

That sounds like a plan. Can we do a petition and send it to Pantas? Seeing the cost of Hoosiers is very similar across the board I can’t imagine it would be a “huge” increase to their budget.

#13

Not to take sides, but I own a SE30, a Spec Miata, a Thunder Roadster, and a Factory Five Challenge car, and I have lots of hours in the Thunder Roadster. Probably over 100. I have plenty of time in the SE30 and FFC, also. To suggest that the Thunder Roadster doesn’t corner as well as a SE30 is a bad joke. Driven right, the Thunder Roadster will corner and brake almost twice as well as a SE30 - not taking a shot at the BMW, as I love mine, but its just a fact. My Thunder Roadster is the best handling car in the whole garage in turns. The Thunder Roadster is 1500 pounds fueled and with a driver in the seat, has race brakes front and rear, coil overs on 4 corners, and has a tire that, while it might not be the stickiest Hoosier in the world, is stickier and wider than a 205 Toyo RA-1. The Yamaha powered cars make about 110hp, so they are indeed a momentum car, which is why they are taking crazy moves to get by in a corner - to keep speed up. It certainly isn’t because the BMW is going to corner better. On a power to weight basis, they will also outrun the BMW down the straight.

The problem seems to be the drivers of the cars, not the cars themselves. If you show me the video or the car, I can almost certainly tell you who was driving, I know most of those guys, and most of them are pretty easy going when you talk to them about boneheaded driving.

#14

Making them switch to better tires won’t fix the problem. It will just insure they go that much deeper into the turn and try to carry that much more speed through the turn. In sum, it insures that they will hit you car faster and harder than before.

-Scott

#15

[quote=“BigKeyserSoze” post=57202]Driven right, the Thunder Roadster will corner and brake almost twice as well as a SE30…[/quote] Maybe the key is those first two words. If you watch starting at 19:15 here Vimeo Link, you’ll see what I’d say is my typical experience around the Thunder Roadsters that race in the Southeast. I had always heard the tire compound was much harder than an RA1 but that might be bad information?

#16

I remember having this problem racing with them back in 2007. Ever since I started racing, no matter what the sanctioning body, it has ALWAYS been the passing driver’s responsibility to make the pass safely. If they cause contact or send another driver off course, its is grounds for a penalty on the license or revocation of the license.

Not sure why you guys are having issues, besides the bonehead moves themselves. They should be dealt with harshly. If this were circle track racing with purse money I could understand, but it isn’t.

#17

Steve:

While I have never put a durometer on the tires, I’d say the ThunderRoadster Hoosier is far softer than an RA1. The simple fact is the cars are 1500 pounds wet with driver, they are going to corner and brake well, if for no other reason than they are light. They also have tube frames, coil overs, and other race-like parts.

I’m not saying people don’t drive them boneheadedly…

#18

I think that the reason for the issues is that bonehead moves generally don’t get punished. Unless the incident is especially grevious it’s called a “racing incident” and both participants get a single point. And that means that no one is being held accountable.

Robert and Chuck have access to the record of the points. Ask them. I bet I’m right.