Thanks norcal, for a great first weekend!

#21

rsott59 wrote:

[quote]laz wrote:

[quote]rsott59 wrote:

What the other thread is a “about” doesn’t really matter.

What Mike is saying that the e30 exhaust could benefit from a flex joint just aft of the down pipe. He’s justifying this modification by stating it is less prone to cracking the down pipes and causing exhaust problems in front of the driver, and is thus a safer design. He points to an issue that happened at the track here in Norcal last weekend where a driver suffered from CO inhalation after an off (see above).[/quote]

Adam/Mike,

My point was not to “split hairs”. If as you say, Mike was interested in having a reasonable and positive discussion about a potentially dangerous situation he could have stated his concerns as you did instead of “this POS spec exhaust is well beyond saving money…And it is so stupid load you can’t hear if it is cracked.”
I don’t know you Mike. I’m sure you are a great guy and you certainly feel passionate about the situation and that’s great. The exhaust issue experienced by Will is concerning and worthy of review and discussion, but inflammatory posts that shout conjecture will not help solve problems and prevent incidents like Will’s from happening again.
Regards,
Bob[/quote]

I totally agree and sorry for getting worked up over it. My excuse is that I have been present when people have died at the track due to passing out for one reason or another, a likely reason being CO poisoning. One person who was involved in one of the accidents and also lost his life was a family friend on my wife’s side. I did not know him personally but any conection to someone who dies doing the sport we all love hits home just that much harder. My brother also had a very scarey bout with CO poisoning in a 600 hp time attack car about a year back, and if it hadn’t overwhelmed him so quickly, he may not have known what was going on and things could have been different.

Another reason for my frustration is that IMO a spec exhaust in conjunction with all the other motor resrictions is a drop in the performance bucket. With a 2 valve per cylinder head, stock airbox, stock exhaust manifolds, and no engine tuning or building outside of factory specs, within reason the type of exhaust will not change the output of our engines significantly if at all.

Why not simplify the rule…“exhaust must be constructed out of a single pipe and muffler with an ID no greater then 2.5”, with the collector positioned at or before the first crossover in the factory exhaust."

That way if you want to roll the dice on the current spec 1 piece exhaust you can, or you can build your own to your standards of safety, fitment, and sound. I live in CA and would love to bring my bimmer to Laguna, but it will never pass sound.

According to the SE30 guys in my region, the spec exhaust is very good performance wise. Some amount of dyno tuning went into its design. The good news being if the rule is changed, the current spec exhaust will still be “the best” system you can buy performance wise, and you would not have to spend a dime to stay in compliance or stay competitive.

My argument in a nutshell is why force us to run a part that can be dangerous in any situation if it has little to no influence on our cars’ performance.

#22

Hey all,

Thanks for the concern.

Here’s my story:

I Had a bad off at the bottom of turn 5 and busted the car up pretty bad. I came back onto the track at turn 7 and was back up to speed by turn 10. The car felt fine and the gauges looked good, so i continued. I knew the exhaust was broken because the car was louder. Next thing I knew I was waking up in the ambulance. I vaguely remembered even finishing the laps after my off. After watching the video I noticed I was driving with one hand out the window trying to vent air into the cockpit. NASA safety is second to none! Not only did a NASA Official (Don Barnwell) Immediately recognize a problem, but the crew that took care of me was on point. I remember waking up hearing them calling for a helicopter. I couldn’t see because my eyes hurt so bad. Needless to say I was not flown out, but only kept under the NASA Medical Staff care for what seemed like a couple hours. The helicopter is always put on standby “just in case”. I think they canceled the transport because I made improvements in my communication with the medical staff i.e. I was conscious again and my vitals were ok.

In response to the idea that the spec exhaust is weak. I had bad CO poisoning from the broken exhaust. Which I believe was MY FAULT. Not the guys who say I HAVE to use this exhaust, not the mechanic that bolted up the exhaust, simply MY FAULT.It still is unknown if the spec exhaust even broke. We haven’t looked close enough at the car to know where it broke, so please do not speculate about how or where the exhaust broke.

For those of you that may be new to the idea of “being forced” to use a certain part, welcome to SPEC racing! We asked for it and we got it! PARITY! No other way IMO. The guys writing our rulebook and running our class have done the absolute best job anyone could do with a job that couldn’t EVER possibly make EVERYONE happy.I participated in the rise peak and demise of Pro7, ITA, and Spec Miata (yes I believe SM is in its demise stage ($7500+ 120hp mazda motors)). I believe SE30 is still in its rise and will continue that if it keeps going the direction it is.

I drove rotary cars for a few years, which have very bad exhaust fumes. I remember at Mid Ohio in 2006 I had an exhaust leak in a practice session and my eyes started to burn. I came in and fixed it and went on to win the National Championship in my class. Something that would have been hard to do from the back of an ambulance.

I should have pulled in as soon as I knew the exhaust was broken and my eyes started burning. The thing that is scary about CO poisoning is that one can not recognize it until it is too late.

If we do one thing about this issue, please don’t turn it into an issue of the safety of our cars, but learn from my dance with the devil and please do not make the same mistake. If you sense an exhaust leak in any way, come in and fix it. The car may sound different and exhaust will burn your eyes.

I am feeling much better and should be back to 100% by the end of the week.

See you at the track!

Will Faules

#23

Great post Will. Thanks for educating guys like me on risks we haven’t encountered yet. And I’m really glad to hear you’re doing better.

Regards,
AJ

#24

Will,

I understand and apprieciate your response, and yes it was your fault for not indentifying the issues soon, BUT, CO poisoning is intoxicating and messes with your head and judgment, you said you don’t remember the last part of the race, but you had the sense at the time to try and direct air into your car during the race, and keep up with my brother in the process. In addition, this concern was around before your incident, yours was just the most recent and most serious to date.

Yes your off was a bad off and damaged your car severly, but the exhaust should be one of those parts the is built to handle that, and with a few adjustments they can. (more hangers, a flexible joint, and better fitment) We will continue to take our cars off track hard as we push further into their capability. Are we to expect everyone that has a significant off to identify the signs of CO poisoning and make the tough decision to end their race? You have a ton of experiance and still made the wrong decision.

I am a car builder before I’m a driver, and If I had built your car, I would have taken responsibility for the issue.(not taking a shot a Valley motorwerks, great shop that turns out great cars, they were required to use that system.) And now that I am a builder of a spec E30, it is my resposibility to identify possible safety issues with our cars. Me sending my family, friends, and myself out in a car with any possible issue is not ok with me. There are a lot of cars on track at a NASA weekend that I would never hop in and race. Does that mean that the driver is going to be hurt today, next event, or ever? Probably not, but why risk it? We don’t need our cages until we roll, our belts until we crash, but we all use them.

I understand that spec E30’s greatest strength is the paridy. That is what attracted me to the series. And certian things are sacrificed to maintain that, but safety should NEVER be one of them. The exhaust is not a key part in maintaining that paridy. Very sucessful spec series like SM, did not have a spec exhaust, and is wasn’t a great concern of theirs. And if there is anyone who would capitolize on a gray area in the rules it would be a SM competitor. If the rule were to be changed, the spec exhaust would still be be legal, and nobody would have to change it, it would just give safety nuts like myself piece of mind knowing that no portion of my exhaust will crack in a big off. Yes this a a relatively isolated issue, and its occurences will be few and far between, but the next time could be me, or anyone in the car I built, and that is not acceptable to me.

I cannot see how allowing our exhaust to be built to a higher degree of safety can hurt the series in any way.

#25

Will,

Thanks for your post, to clear up some of the speculation. And, so glad to hear you are doing better. See you at the track. Ron H

#26

Will - glad to hear you’re doing better! B)