STUPID RULES V2

#21

Chuck,
you obviously know your sh*t, but your perspective on some things is “off”. NASA didn’t “design” the GTS rules to exclude crossover - GTS was started by a few individuals, requested to run under NASA, the series grew, and NASA took it over but the rules haven’t changed substantially from its roots. It is specifically designed to make it easy to cross over - maybe not competitively but there are lots of people who just want another place to race. NASA is a business that is trying to attract and retain customers - they don’t try to do things to piss people off as you’re implying.

SpecE30 rules are designed to create simple, low cost cars that don’t necessarily need an expert to set up and optimize them - to make the series as even as possible no matter who decides to participate. We try to minimize the changes in the rules for stability unless there is an obvious problem with them.

The ballast placement rule has been being discussed but I don’t know if or when it might be updated. And Steve is right, “stupid” is not the optimal choice of words for effecting change. I was going to post that the ballast placement rule was already being discussed when this thread was just getting started but I changed my mind because I wanted to hear what others thought - we do listen.
thanks,
bruce

#22

Bruce, I started racing GTS with NASA when the classes originally started. You are correct in one respect…in the beginning it was easy to cross over from BMW, SCCA, and PBOC and be competitive. That changed after the second (?) year and the class became a money class. You had to optimize your car to NASA rules to be competitive. I was told several times my car was not optimized so I should not complain about the class structure. (Note to those who did not follow the great GTS debate: My car is a natural GTS1 car…it was legislated into GTS2 where it is, in fact, not competitive. I choose not to change the car because it is a winning car in other series.) And Bruce, I have probably been racing NASA longer than you have:laugh:

I understand NASA is in business to make money…no problem with me with that point. I help Jim and Julie all I can. I even helped Mark Barr get another car when he totaled his.

I think the Spec E30 rule set is excellent with a couple of glaring (to me, and others I have talked with) mistakes. One was fixed this year with the allowance of camber/toe eccentrics on the rear subframe. I obviously think there are two others. Tweaking of the rules to ease building costs should be everyone’s goal. The two suggestions I have made will do that, and only that. (Will make the motors last longer, too.)

“Stupid” may have not been the best choice of words, but it does prompt discussion and attention, and that is what I wanted. It also allows people to voice their opinions on the subject, so people like you can gauge interest. I do appreciate your response and I would hope my comments will be taken in the spirit with which they were intended. Chuck

#23

Ok, Steve…no it does not count…writing checks is nothing like getting your hands dirty and doing all the work, including the cage yourself. My point was, the car, ready to race less driver, is 2300# with a full build. Now, you, specifically, spent extra money to have the car stripped and then add weight. If the weight were dropped, you would not have had to spend that extra money.

The cool suit stipulation was dropped from the GCR in 2008 or 2007…I did not keep up with is as I don’t use one so it did not affect me.

Winning is winning, pure and simple. You have won in your series, I in mine. Congratulations. Chuck

#24

cwbaader wrote:

A do-it-yourself cage? Great idea.

I don’t understand cars because I didn’t build mine? Whatever. Your inflated sense of your own command of race car construction is amazing.

Interesting that you say I paid to strip the car then paid to add weight back. To my knowledge, you have never closely inspected my car. You must really know your sh!t to be able to tell what we stripped before the car was finished just from seeing it in the paddock.

You ought to try a cool suit. Little things make winners.

PS - “With all due respect, you guys are stupid. I am smart. Signed, Chuck”

#25

cwbaader wrote:

Were you running Spec E30, you might realize that the more weight you move back, the stiffer the front bar effectively becomes. You may find you want more weight up front to keep from getting push.

But that’s just my opinion. It’s your turn to tell me I don’t know sh!t about sway bars because I didn’t bolt them on that car. :wink:

#26

Steve, you set your car up your way, and I’ll do mine. Yes, a do it yourself cage…with a mechanical engineering degree and considerable welding experience…my first held up well to the new buyer after considerable number of “incidents”. BTW, never read that about sway bars in Steve Smith.

I was commenting about actually getting your hands dirty building a car. From your own admission, you pay to have your work done…your choice, but don’t criticize those of us who choose to do our own work.

I’m trying to be open and help here: you seem to have a problem with that. You want to pick apart what I say and and try to discredit said comments. So, with you, I done…I refuse to have a destructive diatribe with you on this, or any other site. CB

#27

cwbaader wrote:

[quote]…your choice, but don’t criticize those of us who choose to do our own work.

I’m trying to be open and help here: you seem to have a problem with that.[/quote]
Chuck -

I never criticized people who are qualified to do their own work. You are clearly qualified to build a good cage. I was simply saying that not everyone - probably very few - on this site should build their own.

I am not trying to discredit you. I am trying to learn from as many sources as possible. When you post something that I find hard to believe, should I not challenge it? A debate is not an attack.

One of my pet peeves is when someone posts an opinion as an immutable truth. You say “colder spark plugs = non-melted pistons.” I couldn’t see the physics behind it, so I was trying to exchange in a dialog where somebody could illustrate your point.

Evidently, that is a no-no in your book. I have the feeling this thread is boring the crap out of everyone but you and me, so it’s probably good we are putting it to rest.

#28

not boring, quite entertaining actually :slight_smile:

#29

Everyone enjoys a good cat fight!

#30

What we desperately need is the e30 repairman who can fix all our problems and answer all our questions. Where can he be?

e30 repairman

#31

cwbaader wrote:

Au contraire:

And this wasn’t even his car! Maybe that’s why he was working on it? :wink:

#32

LOL - this is good. Keep it going!

#33

Geiger, when was the stripping party?

I’m crushed as I’m good at tearing things up…but no invite.

Robert (guess they’ve see me tear stuff up)Patton

#34

“Cant we all just get along”

I always loved that quote.

I dont care if you built it or you bought it. Enthusiasts are enthusiasts and we are all in this together. I bought my Factory Five, then rebuilt it in a home garage with a friend over a course of years. Sometimes I did the work, sometimes I wrote checks. I guess I am a hybrid of a few of you. The car since won two national championships, so it can’t be all bad. And I’m just a hack, both with the wrench and at the wheel.

I think every class I ever raced in had some rules I thought made no sense. The SE30 rules are no exception, but for the most part they get them right.

In the end, none of it matters. My SE30 should be together before nationals, where I’m going to roll by all of you anyhow, Cobetto included. :woohoo:

-Scott

#35

Patton wrote:

[quote]Geiger, when was the stripping party?

I’m crushed as I’m good at tearing things up…but no invite.

Robert (guess they’ve see me tear stuff up)Patton[/quote]

Roberto we did this on Sat. I guess we should have made it more of an open house event.

Look at it this way you don’t play your star QB in the 4th quarter when you’re up 30 points you let the JV crew get some experience. This was Steve’s chance to work on his game.

Trust me we’ll need people that know what they’re doing to put humpty dumpty all back together…:blink:

#36

Jim, forget it dude, wouldn’t attempt to put back together—too many electricals to mess up.

I just like strippers…that don’t sound right.

RP

#37

Patton wrote:

[quote]Jim, forget it dude, wouldn’t attempt to put back together—too many electricals to mess up.

I just like strippers…that don’t sound right.

RP[/quote]

:woohoo: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: