I’d like someone to help me figure out why this happens. I was given a no-name steel strut tower bar. If it weren’t free I probably wouldn’t have used one, but there it is. So I install it; pretty moron proof to do I thought. After installation the steering was reluctant to return to center on sharp right hand turns. I thought I had an issue with the camber plates (Irelands) because I’d installed the strut bar while it was on the trailer last winter and forgot about it. Took the entire strut off the right side (figured out this is the side with the issue, took it all apart, glared at it, put it back together. In the process of reassembly and trying different things I found that when I tighten down the strut bar on the RH tower (only…it need not be bolted to the LH side) the strut will not pivot smoothly and will bind.
:S
Theories? I just left the damn thing off and drove the car and it’s fine.
Hard to understand the strut binding. The spring hat will certainly bind tho.
You might want to check to see if the strut brace is changing your alignment. Easy to do that with a digital level. Maybe the brace is adding neg camber and that’s why the spring hat is binding. Maybe you can solve the binding problem by reducing the neg camber adjustment at the camber plate.
Or maybe you could mod the strut brace a little so it’s not applying so much force to the towers.
Hard to say exactly, but if you don’t have the correct washers/spacers in the top hat/camber plate assembly, binding is certainly possible.
The strut brace may be a secondary issue; there may be some dynamic in the fitment of the camber plate assembly depending on whether the strut brace is in place. You might to verify the correct parts and orientation with a known good installation.
I tried adding some more washers to the camber plate thinking that was the issue but it didn’t help any.
The strut bar is a snug fit; I don’t have to force it on with anything more than a whack or two of the hammer to get it down around that raised lip around the strut opening, but it doesn’t just drop onto the studs, either. With the car on jack stands it seemed a little easier to install vs on the ground but that may just be related to the process of bolting it down slightly differently.
The strut bar itself is not causing the binding. That will be a problem with the camber plates or something else in the the suspension. My bet is on the camber plates.
That’s what I’m guessing as well, though if the camber plates are already close to the max available without hitting the towers, and he’s beating on the tower brace to get it to work, it could be tweaking it just enough to have the strut hit the tower.
That’s what I’m guessing as well, though if the camber plates are already close to the max available without hitting the towers, and he’s beating on the tower brace to get it to work, it could be tweaking it just enough to have the strut hit the tower.[/quote]
Hard to imagine the strut hitting the tower. I still like the spring hat as the cause of the binding. What exactly is making the spring hat do it tho, is still unclear. My idea was that the tower is moving and that’s adding neg camber causing the hat to bind but Chuck’s idea of interplay between hat and camber plate is a good idea too.
My last strut brace was a little too big so I used to have to pound the shit out of it in order to fasten it in place. It did not seem to change my alignment tho once in place.
[quote=“Foglght” post=66503]If I adjust my Vorshlag plates in more than half way the strut hat will bind against the tower and prevent the car from being steered.[/quote]Ok, it sounds like we’re both saying the same thing.
Hard to imagine the strut hitting the tower. I still like the spring hat as the cause of the binding. What exactly is making the spring hat do it tho, is still unclear. My idea was that the tower is moving and that’s adding neg camber causing the hat to bind but Chuck’s idea of interplay between hat and camber plate is a good idea too.[/quote]
But if the tower mores, the upper strut mount moves with it. So clearance between the spring hat and tower shouldn’t change. At least that is the way I see it.
Hard to imagine the strut hitting the tower. I still like the spring hat as the cause of the binding. What exactly is making the spring hat do it tho, is still unclear. My idea was that the tower is moving and that’s adding neg camber causing the hat to bind but Chuck’s idea of interplay between hat and camber plate is a good idea too.[/quote]
But if the tower mores, the upper strut mount moves with it. So clearance between the spring hat and tower shouldn’t change. At least that is the way I see it.[/quote]
If the tower is moved outboard the relationship between tower and spring hat could change a little because the bottom of the strut isn’t move outboard.
Personally, it seems to me that if a person can’t get -3.5 safely because his spring hat is grinding on stuff, they ought to just remove a couple mm from the spring hat and be done with it. Everyone’s chassis is a little different but to be fair, everyone should be allowed to get to -3.5deg front camber.
I just looked at the rules and I guess the way to make this entirely legal is to modify the 3 holes at the top of the strut tower a bit. That should pull the spring hat away from the inner side of the strut tower.
Hard to imagine the strut hitting the tower. I still like the spring hat as the cause of the binding. What exactly is making the spring hat do it tho, is still unclear. My idea was that the tower is moving and that’s adding neg camber causing the hat to bind but Chuck’s idea of interplay between hat and camber plate is a good idea too.[/quote]
But if the tower mores, the upper strut mount moves with it. So clearance between the spring hat and tower shouldn’t change. At least that is the way I see it.[/quote]
If the tower is moved outboard the relationship between tower and spring hat could change a little because the bottom of the strut isn’t move outboard.
Personally, it seems to me that if a person can’t get -3.5 safely because his spring hat is grinding on stuff, they ought to just remove a couple mm from the spring hat and be done with it. Everyone’s chassis is a little different but to be fair, everyone should be allowed to get to -3.5deg front camber.
I just looked at the rules and I guess the way to make this entirely legal is to modify the 3 holes at the top of the strut tower a bit. That should pull the spring hat away from the inner side of the strut tower.[/quote]
Honestly, my tire wear from races indicates I don’t need any more than the 2.4 I have. Not wearing the outside shoulder that much at all. I’m more concerned with the large cup in the area just inboard of the shoulder that looks like the tire is getting hot and overinflating there causing the extreme wear.
Hell, guys at Grattan were cording the INSIDE of their tires.
On my car with Ireland top hats, the binding comes from the spring purch hitting the top hats if the spacing it not large enough between the top hat and the spring purch. They just us washer, so if you forget one it will bind.
I agree that this issue is a result of the shock tower moving in a maner that the spring purch contacts the side of the shock tower. I’d say put the bar on, take the spring out and turn the car lock to lock through out the suspension travel to find the binding.
As for tire wear, I feel strongly that we wear the insides of the tires due to the soft suspension. I have pictures where only the inside 1/3 of the inside tire is on the ground. Factor in toe settings, I bet we are dragging the tire across the ground. Would love to figure the Ackerman on these cars to help verify this.
I don’t have to “pound the shit out of it” to get the strut bar on. Maybe a whack or two with a hammer just to get it seated around that raised lip. Strut bar placement doesn’t seem to be the issue by itself; it’s when the entire thing is TIGHTENED that the problem develops.
I agree, I think the cause is the spring perch contacting something. When I took the assembly apart it looked like the center part around the strut rod hole was not flat (I therapeutically beat the shit out of it and made it flat again). When the wheels turn the strut piston wasn’t pivoting and this may explain the distortion. I did add two more washers under the camber plate but it didn’t help. I can only run about -2.7 camber IIRC. That’s the max my alignment guy was able to achieve but I’m not sure why that is the limit.
Is the strut bar worth stressing over (pun intended)? I’m not wild about the Ireland camber plates but they are paid for. I could get Ground Control ones at significant expense but if the only improvement is to be able to add a questionable benefit of the strut bar I don’t see it being worth it.
[quote=“ddavidv” post=66526]
Is the strut bar worth stressing over (pun intended)?[/quote]
That’s a good question. Most folks have a strut bar, yet I’ve never seen a strong argument that they really do any good. I’ve not seen anything convincing that our strut towers are moving and I’ve not seen anything convincing that strut bars stop that movement. Certainly some strut bars are so wimpy that they can’t possibly add much structural strength.
I don’t have a strut bar right now. Mine got bent up last year. It’s on my to do list but it’s a low priority. How much you want for yours?
[quote=“Ranger” post=66528][quote=“ddavidv” post=66526]
Is the strut bar worth stressing over (pun intended)?[/quote]
That’s a good question. Most folks have a strut bar, yet I’ve never seen a strong argument that they really do any good. I’ve not seen anything convincing that our strut towers are moving and I’ve not seen anything convincing that strut bars stop that movement. Certainly some strut bars are so wimpy that they can’t possibly add much structural strength.[/quote]
I suspect that the biggest advantage to a strut bar is in reducing the chances of bending a strut tower in an incident. It might do more for handling if the suspension was stiffer, but these car are pretty soft.
I deal with crash damaged vehicles every day. IMO, if the strut tower is going to move in an accident, no bar with bends in it is going to prevent that. It takes a really hard impact to move a strut tower. The bars I’ve seen are not up to the task.
