Spec Miata vs. Spec E30?

#1

Hey guys, I currently own a Spec Miata which I’m using for track days here in southern California. My plan is to get my comp license early next year and start racing. While the SM is a great little car, I’m debating if I want to compete in a different class or stick with the SM. As such, Spec E30 has caught my attention. Heck, I always loved the looks of those boxy bimmers :slight_smile:

So, does anyone here know how the Spec E30 compares with Spec Miata from a performance (speed, acceleration, braking, and handling) standpoint? I know BMW parts are more expensive than Miata parts but how is the reliability of a 15+ year old BMW E30? Can I consider E30s to be safer than a Miata since it is heavier built and a bit larger (especially inside)? Anything else I should know - good or bad - about racing a Spec E30?

Sorry about all the questions and thanks for any info!

Mike

#2

The Miata has better performance just by comparing laptimes. The problem is it really takes about $20k to build a competitive Spec Miata due to all the rules creep.

Provided SpecE30 doesn’t get as big as SM, a competitive car will probably run in the $10-15k range.

E30’s are very reliable as some guys are still racing with motors that have more than 200k miles on them and they still run strong. There are tons of donor cars and parts cars out there if you ever need a motor. Maintenance costs are pretty good.

#3

The wreck miata class tends to have more body work needed too…

#4

nasaregistrar wrote:

Yes, I know. This is what I’m trying to avoid. Oddly enough, some SM racers deny this. One fool on specmiata.com even went so far as to say that the Spec E30 mid-atlantic region had more crashes than the region’s SM guys.

Perhaps it’s the large SM fields but I also think that "driver attitude" has a lot to do with the prevalence of car-to-car contact. Other classes seem to frown on it more than in SM.

#5

traqrat wrote:

maybe where you live, but here in the southeast the times between the classes are just about the same. The top spec Miata times are right in line with the top spec e30 times.

Edit: I went back and looked at some more times and turns out most times the top few spec e30 are a few clicks faster than the top miatas

Post edited by: dmoses, at: 2006/08/29 08:52

#6

uh60fixer wrote:

[quote]nasaregistrar wrote:

Yes, I know. This is what I’m trying to avoid. Oddly enough, some SM racers deny this. One fool on specmiata.com even went so far as to say that the Spec E30 mid-atlantic region had more crashes than the region’s SM guys.

Perhaps it’s the large SM fields but I also think that "driver attitude" has a lot to do with the prevalence of car-to-car contact. Other classes seem to frown on it more than in SM.[/quote]I can imagine large car counts could have something to do with the averages…I had a SM guy tell me that because the cars are so close in performance and the class so competitive, sometimes you need to move a guy out of the way! :woohoo: I declined to reply but that is completely the wrong attitude. I know there was some contact this past weekend and it is unfortunate. If at all possible, please run an in car camera so we as officials can actually see what happens. Sometimes the best view is from the car behind the incident. I can tell you from experience working the corners that we cannot always tell exactly what happens. Dust is flying, many cars are avoiding, etc…

#7

Mike:

It’s good to have you here.

Regarding performance, I’ve been able to get away from every SM car that I’ve seen on the track. But at VIR in Feb., and while driving Carlton’s car, I had a tough time shaking one SM car but finally got away.

Later, I found out that pro racer Charles Espenlaub was driving that car so I don’t feel so bad…

But spec racing really isn’t about ultimate lap times, it’s about close and fun racing, which you’ll get in both Spec E30 and SM. Of course, no one wants to drive a slug around the track but the slight differences in performance shouldn’t affect your decision.

Regarding reliability, my car has 258,000 miles on it and it’s been great. Zero dnf’s in two years. Parts are not cheap (although my '98 MPV parts aren’t cheap either) but usually are not rediculously (Porsche) high. And the huge aftermarket for E30 parts helps. Brake rotors are $45.00 each and last a season, pads are $125.00 per set, tires are the same as SM, and there are plenty of E30 donor cars for other items.

And then there’s that "girly car" thing…

:stuck_out_tongue:

Seriously, let us know what you decide but know that you will not be disappointed with Spec E30. The class is starting to grow in CA and should have strong fields like the Mid Atlantic and Southeast regions, before too long.

Carter Hunt
Spec E30 Administrator

#8

I heard that starting next year NASA is going to mandate SFI3a/5 fire proof panties for all spec miata racers… :stuck_out_tongue:

Seriously…Bimmers are cool cars to drive. It’s a box yes, but the straight 6 makes wonderful sound down the straight and the racing is super close.

#9

"parts are not cheap"
I disagree, Carter. Not sure what you’re comparing it to, but I haven’t had sticker shock over any parts other than some of the Spec specific components. I couldn’t run a Mustang as cheaply as this car appears to likely be. Maybe some Miata parts are cheaper, but the junkyard sourcing for several items on the BMW easily outweighs that. Even if some of the parts are a bit more, the quality of the construction and design is often worth the extra.

#10

As far as reliability goes, my friend and I have an E30 with 200K on the original bottom-end. We’re also working towards licenses so when we go to a DE the car does double duty. We’re averaging 300 track miles per weekend at Willow in June, July and August (100+ degree ambient temps) with no problems at all. For a moment it looked like we started using oil after the last oil and filter change, but the oil pan nut was not on tight enough. :unsure:

My first project car was a 91 Miata that I installed an 11psi turbo in (in addition to a complete suspension and brake rebuild) so I know those as well. Either are great cars with bullet proof mechanicals but I feel MUCH safer in the BMW. I believe cars in Spec E30 trim are turning mid-high 1:30’s at Willow Springs.

Oh, and I noticed that you’re in SoCal too. I’ve got a Spec E30 in process (well in pieces) in the garage if you want to stop by and chat some time. I’m in Southern OC.

Post edited by: robh, at: 2006/08/29 10:45

#11

Spec E30 > Spec Miata. As carter stated above, I have had no problem getting by all the spec miatas I have come up behind on the track. Granted I have only been in 6 races. Plus the straight six just sounds more like a racecar instead of a can of bees buzzing around your cockpit!

#12

Thanks for all the responses, guys. I saw a couple of E30s at a track event at Buttonwillow a couple of weeks ago. A 318 and a 325. Both were street cars. I talked to the owners and learned a bit about them. I agree that they do sound nice, especially the 325.

I will look into renting a Spec E30 sometime this year.

#13

nasaregistrar wrote:
I know there was some contact this past weekend and it is unfortunate. If at all possible, please run an in car camera so we as officials can actually see what happens. Sometimes the best view is from the car behind the incident. I can tell you from experience working the corners that we cannot always tell exactly what happens. Dust is flying, many cars are avoiding, etc…[/quote]

Wish I was running a camera both days. That J.Scott fellow was reckless (and NOT wreck-less.) I was right behind Steve when it happened and thought I would collect them both.

SMD

#14

smdubovsky wrote:

[quote]nasaregistrar wrote:
I know there was some contact this past weekend and it is unfortunate. If at all possible, please run an in car camera so we as officials can actually see what happens. Sometimes the best view is from the car behind the incident. I can tell you from experience working the corners that we cannot always tell exactly what happens. Dust is flying, many cars are avoiding, etc…[/quote]

Wish I was running a camera both days. That J.Scott fellow was reckless (and NOT wreck-less.) I was right behind Steve when it happened and thought I would collect them both.

SMD[/quote]The issue we had with that contact was that there was no one to "break the tie" so to speak. Please email me at racenasa AT hotmail.com so I can get further info.