Got an email from a "prospective racer" asking me about the differnces and my opinions regarding Spec E30 and 944 Cup. Don’t know if anyone cares but I’ll post my reply here for everyones viewing pleasure.
[quote]Hi George,
I saw your post comparing 944 cup with Spec E30, where you stated that you left 944 cup because of the number of incidents in 944. I am on the verge of going back into racing, and am looking at both series from both a cost and “participant attitude� standpoint. For a little background, I had a season in SCCA Spec Racer Ford out west in 2000, and hated the full contact aspect of that racing. I have since then mostly run PCA DE’s as an instructor (in a 944).
I’d be interested to know why you think the E30 guys are better to run with. Older? Wiser? Poorer? J
Also, I’m very interested in the relative operating costs of the E30 vs the 944. Having owned a 944 for many years, and having sunk way too much money into it, I’d be really interested in E30 if the costs are lower. Of all the Porsches, the 944 seems to me to be the most heartache from a reliability standpoint, and when you factor in parts costs and difficulty of repairs (if you’ve ever done a 944 clutch, you know what I mean), I’m interested in looking at any alternatives.
Anyway, thanks for any info you might wish to share.
Terry Thomas
Leesburg
[/quote]
Terry,
I’d be glad to answer your questions and I’ll do my best to give you a somwhat biased appraisal of both series.
944 Cup Pros:
- Porsche 944’s look cool and are a hoot to drive on track.
- Because of the low "initial" costs and the fact that 944’s look cool, lots of guys have built them into race cars…So the 944 field is fairly large 15+ at every event.
- Good group of guys to hang with off the track…
944 Cup Cons:
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Budget…The 944 was never designed for track duty…things on the 944 break and they break often. Parts are hard to find and expensive when you do find them. Servicing a 944 is best left to professionals since any mistake will cost big money to fix later. The engine is unreliable when driven at the limit. No one rebuilds 944 engines cheaply. Plan on $10k+ for a ‘rebuilt engine’ or $1500 to $2k for a decent junkyard motor.
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Tires…To be competitive you need a "new" set of Hoosiers every other weekend, if not every weekend. At $900 to $1000, for a set of tires, it gets to be really expensive if you want to run up front. I asked the series director about switching to a lower cost "spec" tire and was shot down.
At the time, I had the money to spend but it was frustrating spending $2500 to $4000 per weekend to put tires on the car, fix the things that broke and repair the damage I received on track… All the "overhead" was taking away from the fun factor. This number I’m sure is not typical and probably high for a 944… It’s just what happened to me.
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The rules in the 944 Cup are viewed by some in the series as more guidelines than actual rules. There are competitors in the 944 Cup series with some robust racing budgets and don’t mind spending $$ to assure themselves a place on the podium. No one in the series will openly admit to outright cheating, but it happens more often than you’d like to see. Moral of the story here is drivers with deep pockets, not outright skill, have the advantage in 944 Cup.
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When I was still part of the series contact between the ‘front runners’ in the 944-cup series was fairly commonplace. I was involved in three metal-to-metal incidences, none of which where my fault, and my complaints fell on deaf ears. The series director told me "that’s racing" OBTW that was his attitude until "he" got punted. Then his attitude changed. The offender was given a 13/13 and asked not to return for the next 4 race weekends…I don’t like double standards.
From what I’ve seen in the past year, the 944 series has gotten alot better with on track contact so I don’t think it is as big of an issue as it once was.
- Just my humble opinion and I’m sure others might disagree, but…. The 944 Series lacks strong impartial leadership. I didn’t see it 2 years ago when I was involved. Maybe that’s changed. Again this is just one person’s opinion, so please take it with a grain of salt.
Spec E30 Pro’s:
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The series is alot of fun…and I couldn’tt honestly say that about the 944 Cup. The Spec E30 racers are a great bunch of guys and I like everyone I race with. We are a tight group and alot younger than you might think. I would guess mid 30’s is about average.
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The Rules…The Spec e30 series is based on a set of simple, easy to follow, fair rules that all competitors must adhere to. No cheating is tolerated. Cars are randomly dyno tested and inspected by series officials for compliance. I love this aspect of the series. The series director is a super guy with years of racing experience. His leadership is firm, evenhanded and commonsensical. Puts fun and safety at the top of the series priorities.
The rules specify what parts/mods are legal and what things aren’t. No gray area. All the required race parts to convert an E30 into a racecar are spelled out in the rules. Everyone runs the same stuff…including spec toyo tires. (Not the best all out track tire, but good grip, great lifespan and very low cost) The end result is that drivers with skill, not deep pockets end up on the podium.
- Budget…Build costs are very low and the BMW E30 is an incredibly reliable platform. The engine is so overbuilt they almost never break. Parts are plentiful and cheap. If you need an entire new driveline (engine and tranny) you can get one for less than a grand. Car is very easy to work on and the driver can do most things at home.
I budget about $800 per weekend and that includes Gas, Hotel, Registration fees, and replacement of consumables (Tires, brake pads, rotors etc).
- Reliability…So far I have about 2 dozen race weekends on my E30 with zero DNF’s…simply incredible reliability! The reliability is not just in my particular car, but the entire field of e30’s. All the Spec E30 cars seem to finish, week in and week out. In contrast, the 944’s usually suffer from 10-20% attrition during a race weekend. You can check the race stat’s on the NASA website to confirm this.
Spec E30 Cons:
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The cars are…well sort-a ugly. Lets face it, the E30 is a shoebox without alot of pizzazz. It’s not a miata, so at least it has that going for it. This is just my opinion and I’m sure lots of folks LOVE the looks of their E30.
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Lots of newbie’s with the occasionally over aggressive driver…but this could be said of any racing series. The series has grown in popularity immensely in the last 2 years. Lots of new, drivers showing up. In the beginning, most of the E30 competitors were "old / salty" track dogs that new how to drive or new enough at least not to push things too far. That dynamic has changed a bit with the new blood coming in the series. Incidences of on track paint swapping are up slightly. The good news here is that the series director has taken a very hard line on metal to metal contact and the offenders are few in numbers and well known. The director has done a superb job dealing with this issue. You can read this link if you need more info. I think it’s a growing pain for the series that will pass.
- Not really a Con, so I’ll put it in the middle…The series is still a little small. We have about 25ish cars total built or being built in the series. On an average weekend 10-12 cars will show. Not bad, but it could be a bit bigger. Participation seems to be ‘track’ related. VIR is always a big crowd just because it’s such a nice track. CMP or Summit is usually a bit smaller.
To summarize, both series has it’s goods and others….For me, I race for fun. Spending lots of money or having the car in the air at the mechanics, isn’t fun. I’m not always the fastest guy at the track but I see a few podiums here and there. In the Spec E30 series, its nice to know that when you get there, you’ve earned it.
Hope this helps and If you make it out to a track event swing buy…I drive the "Fly Navy" car.
Take care…and drive safe.
brain
Post edited by: brain, at: 2006/07/19 06:57
Post edited by: brain, at: 2006/07/19 20:14