Some pre-season work on GRM project Spec E30

#21

Show me in the rules where they define what a spare can and cannot be.

And the rules do say “spare tire;” they also say “appropriately secured.” I’m pretty sure that all the Spec E30 racers running spare tires are running them on wheels. If you want to get super cute, you can say that the wheel is simply a means of appropriately securing the tire to the chassis.

Trust me, this isn’t some trick cheater mod that’s going to put me on the front row unfairly. I posted the corner weights on the project car page, they’re still heavily biased to the left and the car is still nose heavy.

#22

GRMScott wrote:

Trust me, it is one that will put you firmly in the rear after qualifying. :wink:

#23

Well, if it does, I’ll be in an excellent position for the IFU2!

#24

I love it.

I like driving around with “Betty May Win” in the back seat of my 241 (two for one) taxi ride special.

But, technically-speaking, my thought is that you best not show up at the nationals with something like that. Betty May was not allowed to ride along. You would have been better served to fill your spare tire with lead shot.

Oops, that wouldn’t be legal either.

Have fun, and we’ll see you at Roebling with assurances that the bling wheel is okay (and creativity applauded) by those in the SE.

Regards, Robert Patton

#25

GRMScott wrote:

[quote]
Trust me, this isn’t some trick cheater mod that’s going to put me on the front row unfairly.[/quote]

That’s not the point. We are just going to have to disagree on this one. I honestly believe others feel the same way I do but are keeping quiet because they don’t want the Spec e30 crowd getting any bad press in GRM. I am all for being creative with rules as long as you stay inside them. i just feel as though that is outside of what the rule intended.

No sense in arguing here when I can argue with you face to face this weekend;)

#26

Damion, Obviously I agree with you, but what concerns me is the twisted logic to reach the conclusion that this is legal.

#27

Gasman wrote:

Gasman wrote:

[quote]
…I just wish I knew how to get a copy. I’m now backing away from the keyboard also.[/quote]

I don’t know if I’d call it twisted logic? Wheel with weights on it is pretty common. This is just taking it to the limit. That wheel might be way out of alignment… you don’t really know?

#28

I see twisted logic is rampant among us. I suspect a tire requiring more than 50 pounds of weight to balance it might be sent back to the manufacturer…but hey thats just me.

#29

In a way, I went with this solution precisely because of the magazine affiliation. There are lots of sneaky ways around the rules, but part of building a project car is presenting all the stuff we do to the public. That includes the stupid stuff, the clever stuff, and the gently stretch-the-rules stuff that all racers do.

We need to add weight to the car. I was happier coming up with a solution that is both obvious and defensible as legal per the rules than to try to sneak one past the officials and our readers.

Obviously, it’s ultimately up to the officials. Part of me hopes that it will serve to bring the oddly restrictive ballast rules up for review. If they say it’s flat-out illegal, we’ll just add OEM-type sound insulation back into the trunk, but that’s hardly as much fun.

#30

Looks like “lessions in learning 101.”

Sorry, Scott. It looks like your profile is too big to fit under the radar screen.

Regards, Robert Patton

#31

Scott, it would also be fun to bore a block 50 over and use a lighter rotating assembly with an aluminum flywheel and maybe mill the head a bit. Maybe if I did that we could see if that was allowed too. :wink:

#32

Gasman: I’m not eager to stop you if that’s your idea of fun, but remember that “The
maximum allowable overbore is limited to the largest available factory replacement
piston, not to exceed .020 inch;” “No engine component may be modified in any manner not specifically permitted or authorized by the Factory Service Manual or Factory Technical Bulletins;” and, “Overhaul procedures which in any way may increase performance beyond factory
specifications that are not specifically authorized by these regulations are
prohibited, (e.g. porting/polishing, etc).”

Pesky rules.

#33

[Devil’s Advocate] Why couldn’t he(or someone) just custom machine a wheel out of a solid block of steel that weighs in at 60 pounds, throw a tire on it and bolt it in the back? Perfectly legal within the rules. (Chuck… business idea for Factory 3, Spec E30 Spare Tire Wheels available in a variety of custom weights to fine tune the weight distribution of the cars). [/Devil’s Advocate]

Scott took a “grassroots” approach to achieve the same results without spending a buttload of money on a custom machined wheel. I think he has done exactly what he tried to which was exploit a loophole and point out some questions concerning the ballast rules in the series.

#34

Everybody, shut up. See you at Roebling.

#35

Holy crap, I get busy at work and miss the forum for a couple of days and this develops? Scott, WTF???!!! I hope you had fun welding, but nothing about that spare is cute to me nor fun. I’m with Damion and Steve on this one and cannot imagine any of the rules enforcers would not be either. Wording aside, we all know what a spare tire is, and that’s no spare. You’re not challenging the wording of the rules, but the connotation of the phrase “spare tire.” Need we define it in the rules as a “replacement wheel that can be effectively used on a temporary basis to drive the car safely to a repair shop at 50 mph?” Your “spare” would surely fail this test. I mean, come on. This totally violates the spirit of the rules and the spirit of SpecE30 racing.

Sasha

#36

Gee, while I away away from the computer for a few hours, another brushfire pops up.

Maybe it has just been too long since we’ve all been racing.

My initial admiration for Scott’s creative spare tire was more from an enthusiasts position than as a SE series guy, I should say up front. Plenty of heated discussion on the topic of whether this type of solution meets the spirit of the rules, and if it serves to highlight that we might need to revisit/clarify the ballast rules before next season, then it served a useful purpose.

Do I think a creatively engineered spare tire is pushing the intent of the rules? Yeah, I do. But, the rules also call for 100lbs max ballast, and there are racers out there saying that isn’t enough to make weight. Well, how do you want it?

I’m frankly a bit mystified that some cars, like the GRM machine, worry that they can’t get up to minimum without resorting to these kinds of exotic measures, and personally, I don’t think I could get my car DOWN to minimum if I had more than 6 oz of fuel in it. I thought I removed the same basic stuff as everybody else but my car is just heavy. I know I could lose a few myself, but still…

So, if there is that much variation in the unballasted weights of our cars, due to other choices we’ve made in building, or the tub we’ve started with, or our own personal weight, then it might be worthwhile to give the ballast rules some discussion over the winter.

I think Kelly’s last paragraph is an excellent summary of this situation, and believe that our takeaway for the offseason should be to examine the ballast/weight issue.

#37

I think that the offending spare is completely legal given the current rules. If we don’t like it we should submit for a rules clarification for next year.

I’m with Mike and Damion, let’s wait and argue at the track.

#38

Which is a worst case scenario?
A.) “Bending” the rules to meet minimum weight
B.) Rewording or changing the ballast rules
C.) Having the people who are already heavy or near weight pull a little extra out and lower the minimum weight

#39

Scott, I was being sarcastic. If we have rule creep in one area how do we stop someone else from addressing their own personal grivance with another rule? Tell you what we can do; if you can find someone to ride around the track with you in the trunk of your car, then we will redefine your trunk to be a passenger compartment thus making the weight back there legal, at least until Carter weighs in. :slight_smile:

Skeen, respect your elders.

#40

…throwing gasoline on a brushfire… :stuck_out_tongue:

I think what truly needs to happen is three(3) types of “SpecExhaust”, each one is 50lbs heavier than the next, that way those of us who have gone on diets in the off season can simply swap out our “SpecExhaust” for a heavier one and still make weight :silly: