SCCA IT Series

#1

Steve D. being the wizard of all things outside NASA SE. Tell us a little about what you know regarding SCCA and their IT series.

I (for one) am becoming more interested in places I can race my E30 not under our current administration(s).

I’m aware that most of our rule set came from the IT class, so I don’t expect there would be a ton of changes, we may just not be competitive with the Mazdas who own and operate SCCA indirectly (hearsay).

I think this is the link, but you may be able to condense this into exec. summary.

http://cms.scca.com/documents/Club%20Rules/09%20GCR/ITCS.pdf

#2

I think Chuck Baader is a much better resource, but here I go to make him look smart…

IT classes are regional, so you typically don’t find the large budgets or the large fields as with SCCA national classes.

The heirarchy of speed (in the common Southeast IT classes): ITR, ITS, ITA, ITB, ITC. Our cars class as ITS, but run mid-pack ITA lap times. A legal SE30 would be several seconds off the pace. We suck in terms of suspension, ECU tricks, intake & exhaust improvements. I think they can go 040 over. Since our 020-over motors make like 15 more HP, imagine how much you are leaving on the table there.:silly:

That being said, Butch Kummer (competition director for Atl region) has shown a lot of interest in inviting SE30 to the ARRC in November (“the national championships for regional classes”). At the end of a long season in a crappy economy I have been hesitant to tell him we would show up - much less en masse.

Typical SCCA race weekends include one ProIT race (all IT classes plus SM). It is similar to a Lightning race. So you would still get to mix it up with Miatas. And their really cool drivers.:laugh: But you only get one P-Q-R rather than NASA’s typical P-Q-R-Q-R sessions.

Steve D.

PS - GM controls the SCCA, not Mazda. Just ask the competitors in T1, T2, SSB… Basically any class that includes a Solstice or Corvette, that’s the car to have. SCCA does let Mazda win in Spec Miata and Formula Mazda, though.:blink:

#3

ITS Results from 2008 ARRC

http://www.arrc-online.com/2008ARRC_results/2008ARRC_Gp4_Official.pdf

I’m assuming the BMW 325 is an E30 as I think the E36 is now in ITR.

#4

I would personally love to do the AARC someday.

Another interesting note - SCCA runs RRR an SE30 favorite…

#5

Steve, with NASA it is usually one P-Q-R per day and the cost for the weekend is less than $400 total for 2 races/2 days.
Cost for the 1 SCCA race?

My underlying question…they may acknowledge the spec e30 class in our area, but it would adopt the NASA rules set.So, unless Indy Jim wants to figure out the complicated IT trash, you would have the same rules set to contend with?

How “together” is IT?

RP

#6

Elephant4 wrote:

[quote]ITS Results from 2008 ARRC

http://www.arrc-online.com/2008ARRC_results/2008ARRC_Gp4_Official.pdf

I’m assuming the BMW 325 is an E30 as I think the E36 is now in ITR.[/quote]

Yes - there are E30’s in ITS and E36’s in ITR. But they are way more developed/developable than SE30’s.

I was all fired up to submit some rules to Butch (building on the SCCA Rocky Mountain regional rule set for SE30 cars in IT), but when I realized my budget would only allow a limited NASA schedule for the E30, I cooled off. I get Butch is still interested if you want to talk with him, Jim.

Steve D.

#7

These rules?
http://www.coloradoscca.org/documents/RMDiv-SpecE30Rules2008.pdf

It is good to know there is a small precedent for this in SCCA, and it is also good to know there are options available.

I’m a firm believer in the power of the marketplace.

I guess the larger discussion will depend on how interested other people are /are not.

For now I’m just a disgruntled crank, but I imagine as things become clearer I may end up closer to the middle…

Patton raises interesting points on cost? Also how are the events run in general. I’ve heard that SCCA runs a pretty tight ship in regards to important things like Parking Enforcement.

#8

Elephant4 wrote:

Steve D wrote:

e36’s (and e46’s) can still run in ITS

#9

dmwhite wrote:

[quote]Elephant4 wrote:

Steve D wrote:

e36’s (and e46’s) can still run in ITS[/quote]

Dave -

You are correct. What I meant was that mostly the E36/46 cars are in ITR. Being E30-centric, my point was that the two 325’s in those results in ITS are both E30s. And way faster cars than ours, so that isn’t a good cross-over place for us.

Steve D.

#10

Patton wrote:

[quote]Steve, with NASA it is usually one P-Q-R per day and the cost for the weekend is less than $400 total for 2 races/2 days.
Cost for the 1 SCCA race?[/quote]

$250 for the last one (excluding body damage :blink: ).

That is true. A similar circumstance exists with spec miata running as ITA. An SM is not super-competitive in ITA, but can legally run ITA provided all SM rules apply. In other words, you can’t combine the best of both rules.

I don’t see SCCA accepting a mixed rule set. I don’t see a mixed rule set encouraging cross-over either.

It is really similar to Honda Challenge (rules, culture, cars, field sizes).

A lot of people like it for the same “better mousetrap” appeal. I prefer a spec series, so I am biased.

You would have to have a pretty big burr under your saddle before SE30-in-IT gave you more satisfaction/less aggravation, IMHO.

Steve D.

#11

Steve D wrote:

[quote]Dave -

You are correct. What I meant was that mostly the E36/46 cars are in ITR. Being E30-centric, my point was that the two 325’s in those results in ITS are both E30s. And way faster cars than ours, so that isn’t a good cross-over place for us.

Steve D.[/quote]

gotcha…judging by the its times from the arrc, spec e30’s definitely wouldnt be competitive…but keep in mind, it wouldnt take too many changes to close that gap some (mainly tires)

#12

4.10’s are legai in it!! hahaha

#13

bdigel wrote:

Hey! I’m your customer, dammit!

Steve D.

#14

Ok…the proper gear for the “i” car is 4.27.

SCCA classifies “i” cars, AKA Spec E30, as ITS.

The “e” car (my car) is classified ITA.

The E3646 cars can be classified ITS or ITR depending on which rule set you want to build.

The SE30 is not competitive in ITS at its rule limits. The major problem is wheels/tires. By going to “R” compound tires and the 14 or 15 X 7 wheel, front running cars should be close to podium speed depending on who shows up for the fray. Check out dlbracing.com to look at the entries for RR April 25-26. This is usually a very large race. Last year there were 35 cars in our run group, won with a 121.xxx by a Porsche. There were 18 cars in ITS.

Bottom line, you can’t get better track time anywhere. Chuck

#15

SCCA events will usually have more open track (less traffic), which can be good and bad IMO. The events are not nearly as “fun” as the NASA group makes them. My biggest pet peeve: no schedule. It’s usually something to the effect of, "we’re starting at 8:30 and alternating between these 8 groups all day. You figure it out and listen for announcements (you’re always guessing how much time you have…but it’s usually lots because they are always slow).

#16

Jim

Going to SCCA would be going from the frying pan into the fire…

Al

#17

Have never had a problem with the SCCA scheduling and I have run many more SCCA races than NASA. The organization and professionalism of the two series is somewhat comparable, however, since SCCA has been around much longer organization is usually better. The best thing, though, is that SCCA actually enforces their rules. Just sayin…Chuck

#18

Chuck, I don’t think Jim’s beef is with rules enforcement…we have a paddock police and a common senseability (is that a word)that keeps the SE group pretty much in check. Jim, I think we share the same complaint, and I’m not going into detail on my explanation. I’ll let Jim type 'cause he is faster than I am…at least on a keyboard.

RP

#19

FARTBREF wrote:

[quote]Jim

Going to SCCA would be going from the frying pan into the fire…

Al[/quote]

More like going from a Teflon-coated aluminum pan to a cast iron skillet. They both get the job done, just in slightly different ways. If you want an egg, use the Teflon pan. Cornbread? Cast iron skillet.

If you’re hungry enough, either one is satisfying.

Steve D.

#20

Honestly all I want to do is race and be left alone. Which for the most part the SE has been good for.

You can find a lot more posts (roughly 99999999 to 1) b!tching about rule changes than you can about someone cheating.

I think we’re answering a question that really hasn’t been asked.

Instead of enforcing the rules we have, we’ve gone off to make more and I suspect that all the problems may be centered in one area of the country.

If everyone lives in fear of this unnamed mogul that is going to come with the F1 budget and ruin your good time, I got news for you, all the rules in the world isn’t going to keep him from winning.

Your precious dyno - motec piggy back ECU disguised as ABS pump or whatever retail cost $10-14k. Probably within the means of several guys that regularly post here.

The pocket calculator, GPS, bread machine - there are 14 outsourcers in India that would have this thing spitting out 155hp numbers from now until Sunday for $200. Or any number of clever computer / EE guys that again post on these boards.

So keep thinking. Every rule change that has been made since the first version has detracted from people’s enjoyment of the series not added.

I’m all for dictatorships, heck really any govt. as long as they realize “less is more”. From what I hear there is always a grass is greener element to these things and certainly any alternative will have pros/cons. This post is simply to remind everyone that while we may be in a dictatorship, we’re not in a monopoly.