S.E. Incident Points YTD

#1

Group, one of the really great things about the increase in field sizes is that we all have somebody to race closely with at every event.

One of the potentially dangerous things about the increase in field sizes is that we also have somebody to race closely with at every event.

On the eve of what is shaping up to be the biggest single SpecE30 race field this weekend, I’d encourage everybody to keep that in mind, and make sure to keep your brain firmly engaged at all times through the weekend.

We made it through the first few years of steady growth with virtually no E30 car-to-car incidents, that I can recall. (All the ones I can recall involved a Miata or other out-of-class car). This past February at CMP, that changed, of course.

Especially with the IFU-2 race, with the field starting inverted, virtually everyone on the track is going to have an opportunity to participate in a lot of battles and a lot of passes, either as passer or passee. As you will recall, one of the biggest takeaways from IFU-1 was how much racecraft people got to learn in a compressed period of time.

In a lot of cases, since we have some new drivers and some out-of-region drivers, you won’t even really know the driver you are battling.

Patton’s oft-repeated adage “Know who you’re racing” rings as true today as it ever has. We’ll have a lot of attention on us this weekend, and I know we’d all like people to come away impressed with the close racing, the skill of the drivers, and the fun that we have racing together on track.

Low-percentage moves usually turn out poorly for one or both parties. There’s a reason why they are called low-percentage moves.

So please, drive with your heads firmly engaged, and remember that there are consequences for mistakes.

With that in mind, I’d like to recap where we are this year with incident points.

By my calculations, from the incident at CMP in February, we have:
3 points - D. Cullen (as initiator of contact with damage)
1 point each - E. Davidson, S. Foushee, C. Geiger (as involved)

From Road Atlanta in March:
3 points - R. Patton (rear-ended a 944 in T3, as initiator)

#2

Thank you, Chuck.

From the number of points that I see posted, you’ll want to avoid that Patton dude. Bet you didn’t even know that I was involved in an incedent?

Spec E30 history:
2007
March RA: Moses 1, Fouchee 1, Marshall 3
May Roebling: A. Taylor 1
August RA: C. Taylor 1
Sept Roebling: Canterbury 1

2006: nothing
2005: nothing
2004: nothing

As you can see from the 06,05,04 reports…well, i didn’t run into any thing or any other car.

Glad to see that someone is keeping score and that the information is for all to see.

Regards, Robert Patton

PS Public humiliation is a great thing.?!

#3

Well stated and your message is received loud and clear Chuck. If I have all my ducks in a row and am allowed to “premiere” in the IFU-2, I will be applying every ounce of skill and situational awareness I have to avoid running into someone. Since that won’t be enough, just be sure to give the slow but oh-so-shiny and aerodynamically textured red car a wide berth and everything will be fine!

#4

Joe, I’ve got the awareness thing down to an art. Just ask some of the mod car drivers that I race within the BMWCCA.

When appropriate, the old HPDE point-by is appreciated by the passer. When done with the index finger it is a gesture that let’s everyone know that you’ve got a handle on the situation. When done with the middle finger…

Regards, Robert Patton

#5

Re. getting awarded a point for “being involved”. The explanation that I heard is that you get a point for being involved so that NASA can easily track who is getting involved in accidents. That is to say, tracking that while utterly innocent of screwing up yourself, someone hit you.

That seems dumb. Points are disciplinary in nature. If a guy/gal is innocent in a fender bender, they should not receive a disciplinary point. I’m sure that if we apply ourselves, we can find another way to track who is innocently involved in incidents.

#6

I got points for being the victim of an accident! Why?

#7

Its not the end of the world. Its just a way to track who’s been involved in something. Period.

If someone gets 10 single points for being involved in 10 seperate incidents, maybe they are the common denominator even if they weren’t at fault.

Its a tracking system, not a demerrit system.

#8

155MPH wrote:

[quote]Its not the end of the world. Its just a way to track who’s been involved in something. Period.

If someone gets 10 single points for being involved in 10 seperate incidents, maybe they are the common denominator even if they weren’t at fault.

Its a tracking system, not a demerrit system.[/quote]

If points are “tracking” and not disciplinary, then maybe we need something that is disciplinary.

I mean other then spending the day flagging at turn 4 .

#9

JP, thank you for your assessment of the points system. You are spot-on with your observation.

I can see how Hunt feels when he starts a new ruling for E30.And for the hell of it my 3 points could have been swept under the table as there was no damage to the 944 and my damage was minimal. Look it up, it is called consentual contact. But if you want rules of consequence enforced you must have them done for all.

Yes, you get points for being involved in an incedent.
Yes, it is disciplinary.Just the display of the pionts is disciplinary…and for a bad driver, a total of 10 points and you’re gone. Hopefully that racer would have got the message long before the 10 were totaled-up.

Regards, Robert (your points leader) Patton

And,no this is not a discussion about bump drafting.

#10

Robert, I just read the NASA CCR, pages 122-125. Your discription and my interpretation are very different.

#11

Being on the spot with the rules book, I could not find mention of “consentual contact.” Chalk it up to wishful dreaming that I’m a groovy-kind of guy or confusion with other rule books. Give me 3 and let’s move on.

If you have concerns about points you’ll want to discuss the with Pantas,Taylor and Henning–you IRB staff.

Regards, Robert Patton

#12

Guys,
Every racer has a story, and every video camera tells the truth. We are assessing points simply to keep control of what could become a bad situation. Nobody wants to go home with banged up cars, it takes all of the fun out of it. This is supposed to be safe and recreational sport, just like my speech in the Racer’s meeting where I offer anyone a free 1st place mug and their picture to be taken with the trophy girls if they’ll promise not to hit anything/anyone in the race.

If you get an “innocent” point and that is all that ever happens to you then you are good to go, but if you start accumulating “innocent” points then we’ll have a chat, eventually you’ll reach our limit of “innocent points” and start doing HPDE’s again for a while until you are ready to go racing again.

In the past we had not quantitative way to decipher the argument “he/she hits me every race!” with the classic response “I have never hit him/her before!” - now we have a way to measure it and stay on top of it, it is not punitive unless you have an accumulation problem.

Look at the standing start restart of the IFU-2, I went off in T1 on the outside, I could’ve taken the high risk move of re-entering the track in the pack in T2 and ended up possibly taking a few of you out, or lose the 27 positions I did and reentered past T-2 when I saw an opening…

The points are simply a way to track a trend, and for us to stay on top of situations that might be building into ugly scenarios.

#13

Addendum:

Being one that accumulated an “innocent” point, I obviously questioned the ruleset. In thinking back to the incident in question, I doubt Steve (Gasman) even knew what was coming until his car was on two wheels. Why give him a point since he not only couldn’t have avoided it, but probably had no physical way of knowing what was about to happen.

Here’s my logic… Agree or disagree as desired. If you are involved in an incident, you accrue at least 1 point. If by the end of the season, you have accrued 10 “innocent” points, either you need to take up model airplane building because you’re jinxed in amateur sports car racing or you are not paying attention and need to work on your situational awareness.

There seemed to be some confusion upon the status of your permanent record. Upon further digging, points are reset each season.

We only have 3 weeks this time to get the arguments heated up. Anyone have trouble with their exhaust this weekend? :laugh:

#14

TheRedBaron wrote:

Nope! I worked on the tailgate of my trailer and with some plywood “portable shims” I have it so that I can get the “optimal” angle to get in/out of trailer with little or no scraping.

Humorous exhaust note:
I was asked this weekend:
“Does your exhaust hang low or is your car happy to see me?” :silly:

#15

This was my first race with the spec exhaust. Maybe it was just me, but my car seemed noticably slower.

#16

Patton wrote:

[quote]Being on the spot with the rules book, I could not find mention of “consentual contact.” Chalk it up to wishful dreaming that I’m a groovy-kind of guy or confusion with other rule books. Give me 3 and let’s move on.

If you have concerns about points you’ll want to discuss the with Pantas,Taylor and Henning–you IRB staff.

Regards, Robert Patton[/quote]

Robert,

I forgive your confusion. I think it arises from having run a number of events with the MA region, where this non-rule is used extensively.:wink:

Sasha

#17

From Roebling, one incident to add to the tally for 2008 incident points. And yes, they do reset at the end of the year, to clear up that confusion.

Carlton Goldthwaite assessed 3 points for punting a Miata on Sunday.