Roll Bar Padding

#11

I’m not sure why you wouldn’t want to pad the cage, but I found that you can get the SFI stuff from the big racing shops like Summit Racing and Jegs in various thicknesses. I used the less thick stuff in the spots on my cage where I wanted space and the really thick stuff like you see on most cars in the other areas. The thinner stuff I was able to bend nicely on my curved NASCAR door bars as well.

#12

[quote=“Ranger” post=63374]
It’s not a matter of being disorganized, it’s a hallmark of a good organization that doesn’t micromanage it’s subordinate leaders. Good organizations provide “guidance” to subordinate leaders that they can choose to ignore if they feel they have compelling reason to do so and are ready to defend their decision if called on it.

Shitty organizations micromanage every detail and everything runs poorly.

The military has an idea along the lines of “the way to create an effective organization is to pick strong subordinate leaders, give them “mission, intent, and desired endstate” and then let them find their own way”.

I’m up on my soapbox about this because subordinate leaders having the power to make decisions based on their judgement is a big deal.[/quote]
Your post has me confused as to whether or not you are for the discretion to be at the regional level?

[quote=“Ranger” post=63374]
Re. “relocated batteries”. This is a reference to your battery being in your trunk, where we all have it, not a reference to locating the battery wherever you want. The requirement for the metal strap over the battery was a mid-year rule change 2-3yrs ago. I don’t know if it’s a NASA reg tho, so tech might only note if your battery is secure. Your regional SpecE30 director is sure to be aware of the requirement tho.[/quote]

The SE30 regulation does NOT say that my battery needs a strap unless relocated. And since I am understanding now that the SE30 regs supersceed the NASA CCR…

#13

Neither my feet or head will be tapping the rollcage anytime soon. Plus, its just another item I have to buy. I don’t want to buy anything else.

#14

My understanding is that this is an unofficial rule that was made when a crash resulted in the battery in the OEM location becoming dislodged. I think it was in the Florida region. I’m not sure why the rule hasn’t been made official though.

#15

Oh deer…“unofficial”

#16

[quote=“Foglght” post=63388][quote=“Ranger” post=63374]
It’s not a matter of being disorganized, it’s a hallmark of a good organization that doesn’t micromanage it’s subordinate leaders. Good organizations provide “guidance” to subordinate leaders that they can choose to ignore if they feel they have compelling reason to do so and are ready to defend their decision if called on it.

Shitty organizations micromanage every detail and everything runs poorly.

The military has an idea along the lines of “the way to create an effective organization is to pick strong subordinate leaders, give them “mission, intent, and desired endstate” and then let them find their own way”.

I’m up on my soapbox about this because subordinate leaders having the power to make decisions based on their judgement is a big deal.[/quote]
Your post has me confused as to whether or not you are for the discretion to be at the regional level?

[quote=“Ranger” post=63374]
Re. “relocated batteries”. This is a reference to your battery being in your trunk, where we all have it, not a reference to locating the battery wherever you want. The requirement for the metal strap over the battery was a mid-year rule change 2-3yrs ago. I don’t know if it’s a NASA reg tho, so tech might only note if your battery is secure. Your regional SpecE30 director is sure to be aware of the requirement tho.[/quote]

The SE30 regulation does NOT say that my battery needs a strap unless relocated. And since I am understanding now that the SE30 regs supersceed the NASA CCR…[/quote]

Re. Authority at the regional level. “For” and strongly so. Local leaders need to have the authority to call things as they see them. Should there be a problem with some local leader because they’re a nut-job and are failing to follow their boss’s intent, then get rid of him. But don’t screw with how he does busines.

Re. battery strap. A huge charm of this forum is that it provides an opportunity for newbies to learn from folks that have been doing this a while. You are free to benefit from the elders in the class and put a goddamned strap over your battery, or you can choose to be a hard-head.

“Relocation” might be a reference to relocation of the battery from the engine compartment to the trunk. In early e30’s the battery was in the engine compartment. Or the issue might have just got confused when the mid-year change came out that I mentioned a couple posts ago. Maybe someone intended to write the mid-year change in, saw the “relocation” reference and decided that covered it.

I wash my hands of the issue. I tried to help you, I failed, I’m done. It’s Monday morning, don’t piss me off.

#17

It isn’t that I don’t appreciate your input. I had no idea “early” E30 cars had the battery in the engine compartment.

My car was designed from the factory with the battery in the trunk. How would that be a re-location?

#18

Our rules may have omitted the requirement for a battery tie down but you won’t pass tech for an hpde or autox without it. This is the rule in the hpde section.

11.4.9 Battery
The battery shall be securely fastened to the car. No Bungee cords or rubber cords may
be used to function as the sole hold down mechanism. An electrically non-conductive
material must cover the positive battery terminal. Any battery located inside the driver’s
compartment should be fully covered and firmly secured to the chassis (or tub) in a
marine type battery case. True dry cell batteries may be mounted without a surrounding
case, however a case is still recommended.

#19

Well we’re off the subject of roll bar padding…

Is the trunk considered the drivers compartment? That opens up a whole other can of worms.

I only bring this stuff up because it actually matters. I’m not trying to be arguementative just to argue.

What I don’t want to do is show up at the track after dropping $360 on entry fees, only to spend the entire day “fixing” my car and missing track time because the rules weren’t clearly stated to begin with.

So far, my battery is in the OEM location, with the OEM battery hold downs. The rule you just showed basically states that if you consider the drivers compartment to be the trunk, I have to buy a case and not a strap.

I’ve got the electrical tape for the positive cable. No problem.

I also will have to tow my car to a facility to get it inspected, at of course a $50 charge to me. Towing the car around ain’t cheap and the closest facility to me is about 80 miles away (at least someone who will answer the phone).

I’ve done it the other way. It sucks. The Formula SAE competition while I was back in college was the worst. SCCA was better, but not great.

Hell, last time I was at a NASA event the guys at the track kind of stared at the car for a few minutes and said I was good to go. I would be more than willing to put together a list of things that need to be checked on the E30 for compliance/tech inspection and it could be added to the rules if that is what is needed.

#20

If the rear bulkhead is sealed off, the trunk is not considered part of the passenger compartment. If it is open, you need the box.

NASA MW/GL will do annuals and issue logbooks at the track with advanced reservation and a $50 fee. That’d be a good option for you to save the extra tow just to get an inspection, but of course, you’ll want to make sure the car is all ready. You can fix just about anything at the track–hell, I payed a guy to do a couple of 360 welds on my cage in the middle of the night in the paddock.

For alot of minor stuff, you might be able to get an exception to race that weekend, with the understanding that it has to be fixed before you show up at the next event.

#21

Well the cage builder removed the two lower triangle looking pieces of the rear sheet metal to facilitate the cage installation. There is another hole in the center that appears to be for a ski pass-through.

So, what you are saying is that now I don’t need a strap, but I need an entire case for my battery?

#22

The rear bulkhead on and E30 (and many other cars) is not sealed. But the trunk is sufficiently isolated by the rear bulkhead to be considered as a separate compartment. The exception to that would be when a trunk mounted fuel cell is used. In which case there must be a solid panel separating the trunk from the cabin.

I think it is safe to say that the trunk (the required location for the battery) is not going to be considered to be a part of the driver’s compartment. Well unless the rear bulkhead has been removed, which would be illegal. If you think enough of the rear bulkhead is missing that tech might view the trunk as being part of the driver’s compartment, weld or pop-rivet in sheet metal to cover the openings.

#23

Here in Norcal they were checking this for compliance at this past weekends event. They are considering the rear bulkhead with holes in it, and that would be ANY hole from the 1/4 inch ones to the openings on the deck enough cause to have you seal them. Aluminum tape is fine to cover the holes but in your case with the metal removed in the center, which was for the Ski pass through package you will need to cover that with a piece of metal and the holes around the bars of the cage that go through it.

The case being that in a rollover or severe crash where the battery is damaged and leaking that no fluid can come through the rear bulk head and burn you.

And in the case of safety in cockpit, im all for whatever lets me walk away if the day ever arises that all that safety equipment ever needs to be used. So put pads anywhere you could potentially come in contact with a bar.

#24

[quote=“Foglght” post=63401]Well the cage builder removed the two lower triangle looking pieces of the rear sheet metal to facilitate the cage installation. There is another hole in the center that appears to be for a ski pass-through.

So, what you are saying is that now I don’t need a strap, but I need an entire case for my battery?[/quote]

Do what jlevie said.

#25

So,

Now we are up to buying some sheet metal, pop rivets, aluminum tape and a battery box to be compliant, plus there is some question about roll cage padding still.

Just want to be able to go to an inspection and leave with a log book signed off. These are really legit questions.

#26

You don’t need a battery box if you close up the ski hole and the holes around the cage tubes.

I think 9 feet of high density padding a bottle of contact glue and a bunch of zip ties should all you need to pad the cage.

#27

[quote=“turbo329is” post=63413]You don’t need a battery box if you close up the ski hole and the holes around the cage tubes.

I think 9 feet of high density padding a bottle of contact glue and a bunch of zip ties should all you need to pad the cage.[/quote]

The last thing on earth you ever want to do is leave yourself the option to have someone DQ you over a discretionary metric.

Trust me, I know.

I will buy a battery box to ensure that nobody can argue. It’s stupid that I have to buy it, but given the responses I have no choice. I do not want headaches.

#28

Theres one on Amazon for 13.00 bucks… I just bought one but havent installed it yet.

#29

This seems to be a primarily hypothetical argument about battery tie-downs and battery boxes, and I’m guessing the folks doing the asking are newbs that have never taken a car through tech and are trying to figure it out from reading our admittedly arcane rules.

If I’m totally offbase, call me a sh!thead and I’ll shut up, but if you have not yet made friends with someone who races one of these cars, do yourself a favor and make one so you can get wised up on how things really work, and what passes/does not pass, in your region.

It wouldn’t surprise me if tech inspection norms vary by region, so talk to the locals where you are. In the SE, they are big on supplemental tie-downs but I’ve never seen anyone put a battery box in the trunk.

#30

This is not a hypothetical.

I’m sitting here trying to figure out what I need to order online and have it here so I can install it before I head out. Basically, I have one last week here before I pretty much run out of time to work on the car.

And I’ve taken enough cars through tech to know better than to trust the rulebook, which is painfully obvious given the answers I’ve received here and the text as written. I’ve had race cars with no padding, and I’ve had some with padding.

Definitely don’t want to spend money I don’t have to, and I hate doing shit twice or three times.

Given that there is a national championship for this series, I find it hard to swallow that the rules can vary by region. Hence the extra questions, mostly because I want to hear all the BS up front and get it all taken care of. I’d also rather not wait until I get to the track to take care of this stuff, given things at the track typically have a 50% markup.

I do appreciate the answers though, at least the ones that aren’t condescending. I’m also not sure what the non-sequitur about libertarians was about either.

Also not really sure why its such a big deal to ask rule questions on a site dedicated to the series, especially if it could lead to a simpler rule set to benefit everyone in the future.