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Ok, Canterbury and I were doing my rear subframe bushings…there are two pieces for each side, one the bushing and then a piece that looks like a cap that we couldnt figure out what it did. Canterbury had been hammering PBR’s so in his clouded judgement we did not install the top piece. Of course it is all his fault. It looks like my subframe is riding up and down on the bushing…did I screw up?? Last test session the car was really squirrly under braking, like I had rear toe out…
Al
Oh… Polyurethane…
There should be a ‘bottom’ and a ‘top cap’. You have to retain the thick big stock washer that goes between the body and the bushing. I assume this is what you are missing. The subframe mounting has a nub that hangs down about half an inch or so and if that washer is not retained the bushing is pressed over that nub. A stock bushing will do the same thing and then the subframe can slide up and down.
The bushing will be pushed into the subframe, then the center sleeve through it. Then place the washer on top over the center sleeve. I generally hold the subframe up against the body, then drop the two big bolts through. You can then attach the "p’s" and big lower nut.
You can invert the two bushing peices to change the roll center with some modification as well. I’m not convinced this does much on an E30. Al, if you need a picture to show the parts email me and I’ll send it over.
Speaking of rear subframe bushings, when do you know when to replace them or is it just a good PM thing for a 20 year old car?
Michael Colangelo wrote:
Look at the rubber. The center will probably be torn away from the outer bit. Even if not, for a track car, you probably want something stiffer than stock.
I have aluminum in my car. The stiffer the rear subframe bushings the better the car can handle. It keeps the entire rear suspension from slopping around a much underneath you. Rear subframe bushings will especially make a E30 feel more stable and precise.
Michael Skeen wrote:
[quote]Michael Colangelo wrote:
Look at the rubber. The center will probably be torn away from the outer bit. Even if not, for a track car, you probably want something stiffer than stock.[/quote]
Thanks, Mike. Checked mine recently and they look good. I think the PO changed them about two years ago.
Craig Geiger wrote:
[quote]You’ll definitely need to replace them when they look like this:
;)[/quote]
I wish my bushings looked like that. It took me all day to get the subframe off because the dissimiliar metal corrosion welded the bushings to the body. I had to burn the rubber out to drop the frame. After that a lot of wacking at the alu-mini-um bushing cores to get those out. Joy!
I’m getting ready to pull my rear subframe to replace the bushings and I’m looking for tips, tricks, and warnings.
I’m assuming the easiest thing to do is to remove the bottom bracket on each side, unbolt the lsd from the drive shaft and drop the subframe with the trailing arms attached. Correct?
Bob
Don’t forget to disconnect the brake lines and the parking brakes, and the anti lock. I simply cut the pad wear cable. There is a large washer on the top of the bushing that will need to be retained. If it doesn’t drop with a crow bar prying on the big washer, the center of the bushing is corroded to the frame.- Burn out the rubber and the subframe will drop. then hit the bushing center back and forth to knock it out of the cup on the bottom of the car. Inspect the cup and remove any aluminum that has corroded onto the steel.- use a center punch or something.
Bob - you asked for opinions. I found it easier to remove the trailing arms first and then deal with the subframe. I would remove the rotors and calipers from the trailing arms to make them a little lighter and easier to deal with. Putting the subframe back in is also a lot easier without the trailing arms hanging on.
Ed
We’ve always found that pulling the diff first makes the subframe easier to handle. I can’t comment on the trailing arm removal, as I haven’t gone that route, but the subframe with trailing arms and without diff is still a mighty heavy piece.
A couple of things I’ve learned about subframes and trailing arms:
-don’t ever try to install AKG trailing arm bushings with the subframe in the car. It’s impossible to get the locking washers in place while trying to bolt the trailing arms in place. Do yourself a favor, drop the subframe and install the bushings and the trailing arms on the floor or workbench. JP and I found this out the hard way when we installed his TA bushings.
if the subframe is stuck do the following: use a sledge hammer to knock the studs that the subframe mounts on up into the cockpit of the car. Then take a 3/8" extension or drift punch and put it inside the bushing and start wiggling it back and forth. I’ve gotten subframes that were literally welded on with rust to drop within 5 minutes using this method. It’s quick, safe, and easy. Then use a punch to drive the mounting studs back down into the unibody from inside the cockpit.
two floor jacks and a helper at key moments makes this job much easier
my .02,
Steven
Thanks for all of the input. If there is a dark cloud hanging above Bucks County PA this Saturday you’ll know it’s not going well…
Bob
Good point Steven. I did it this way with noneccentric bushings. The adjustable/eccentrics are a pain to mess with.
Ed
Everything came out today without much drama. The trick with the 3/8" extension inside the bushing worked great…on the second bushing. I tried just tapping the first bushing with a hammer and it broke off inside the cup on the chassis requiring some drilling and chiseling to get the remainder out. Tried the extension trick on the second bushing and it popped right out after a couple of minutes.
Thanks for all of the input.
Bob
