Ranger's Dec09 motor rebuild thread (lol)

#161

cwbaader wrote:

:huh:

I guess it’s a good thing I asked Carter to add Bentley’s as an acceptable source for the rules for 2010. :laugh:

#162

jlevie wrote:

Interesting! Being generally uneducated in these things, can you explain in layman’s terms? Intiutively, I wouldn’t expect valve timing to be changed by decking a head (ignoring minute changes in alignment of the crank and cam pulleys due to the shortened distance between the two).

#163

Steve D wrote:

[quote]jlevie wrote:

Interesting! Being generally uneducated in these things, can you explain in layman’s terms? Intiutively, I wouldn’t expect valve timing to be changed by decking a head (ignoring minute changes in alignment of the crank and cam pulleys due to the shortened distance between the two).[/quote]
Altering the sprocket center to center distance on a toothed belt or chain drive changes the timing relationship. One side of belt/chain the path is the load side and under tension. Since the belt/chain has a fixed interval between teeth, changing that length means that one of the sprockets has to rotate.

#164

jlevie wrote:

[quote]Steve D wrote:

[quote]jlevie wrote:

Interesting! Being generally uneducated in these things, can you explain in layman’s terms? Intiutively, I wouldn’t expect valve timing to be changed by decking a head (ignoring minute changes in alignment of the crank and cam pulleys due to the shortened distance between the two).[/quote]
Altering the sprocket center to center distance on a toothed belt or chain drive changes the timing relationship. One side of belt/chain the path is the load side and under tension. Since the belt/chain has a fixed interval between teeth, changing that length means that one of the sprockets has to rotate.[/quote]

Can’t help but love that guy. Soul brother.

#165

jlevie wrote:

I dig it.

It’s been a while since I looked at the cam sprocket, but I would guess it is +/-3" in diameter, which would translate to 0.026" per degree of rotation. So the 0.012" decking would change valve timing by 0.45 degree. Of course, if it is a smaller diameter, the change in degrees would be greater.

I guess in the “every little bit helps” category, that might add up. But I would think you would need to affect valve duration more than timing to have an impact on horsepowers and “torks”. :wink:

Signed,

Frustrated Mathematician

#166

I’ll take 1/3 of a CR point over 0.45 degree of “retarded” cam timing any day.

Dang - I just re-sealed up my water pump to the block yesterday - and was hoping to actually drive the car today… but I guess it’s time to rip the engine out, find a copy of the BMW shop manual, and machine everything to minimum weight and maximum clearance. I’ll see you guys at Road Atlanta in 2015 or so…

Ranger - if you managed to actually unsquare the bores in your IRON BMW block, then you are truly talented. I mean cracking a head takes a bit a talent, but twisting your block? That is pure brilliance.

I once ran a 5.0L mustang V8 until it ran out of water and sounded more like a diesel than a gas engine. Cooled it down, replaced busted hose, refilled with water - no harm, no foul - gotta love 1950s engine technology…

#167

Ok, Steve. What is the link to the real shop manual, not just the front page? cB

#168

cwbaader wrote:

I purchased a hard copy from books4cars.com then scanned it into PDF form. I can’t recall off hand, but I believe I paid around $150 for the two volume set.

Bentley’s is cheaper and more easily obtained, but at the time of my purchase the rules said you had to use the factory shop manual.

#169

Ok, Steve. What is the link to the real shop manual, not just the front page? cB

#170

cwbaader wrote:

+1

The html verson is on my web site, but I’d like to upgrade to pdf too.

#171

it is about 110MB in size - if someone has a place to put it, I’ll upload it.
bruce

#172

Up to 300MB, stays there for 45 days

http://www.gigasize.com/index.php

No past experience, found it just now in a google search.

#173

Ranger wrote:

[quote]cwbaader wrote:

+1

The html verson is on my web site, but I’d like to upgrade to pdf too.[/quote]
Maybe I have a screwed up moral compass, but I figured if I bought my copy of the shop manual from a guy who sells out-of-print and hard to find “books4cars”, it would be kind of sh!tty to turn around and give it away. I guess I’m the assh0le.

#174

I found the place that I downloaded it from …
You have to sign up to access it.

http://www.bimmerwerkz.com/forum/3-series-e21-e30/bmw-e30-factory-service-manual-pdf-67616.html

you can try this as an alternative but I’m not sure it works
http://www.gigasize.com/get.php?d=osry7pq7rsb

Steve, you should compare this to your copy. I remember a thread where someone had their 13yo son convert the 1300 pages from the CD version of this to pdf and assembled it, and offered it up at no charge to anybody. I’m curious if the books4cars guy just took the pdf and is reselling it.

#175

I found a link on E30 tech (or was it R3Vlimited?) a while ago too. Search around there and you can find something in pdf format too.

#176

Update. The rings are due today. Finally. Finding OEM .020 over rings for less then the cost of new pistons AND rings turned out to be difficult.

But there’s a hitch. The local guy that I’d hoped would help me with the artistry required for a topnotch ring & hone says that the effort can’t be done by hand to the standards that I’m expecting. He says that I need to remove the motor and crank, and bring it to him.

Now that’s a bummer.

The problem with that is I’m getting low on time. I can R/R a head like the BW JV enduro team pit crew, but there are parts to R/R the crank that I’ve only done once so I’d have to go slowly and allow time to unscrew my inevitable mistakes. On top of that between now and the 2nd week of Feb CMP race I’ve got a week of skiing with Al Taylor and a Lemons car and race to focus on.

So here’s the plan. Chuck feels strongly that I need to check the rings because the overheat might have damaged them. I’ll pull the pistons and inspect the rings. If they are ok I’m going to put the head, which will be arriving soon, back on and do a leakdown test. If that’s ok I’m going to put everything back together and race at CMP.

If it’s not ok, I have a spare motor that I can put on, and I have to miss the March race at RA anyways, so that will give me time to tear into the engine if necessary.

Here’s a couple questions…

  1. The fact that this motor was a little low on hp has always been a concern. I had a theory that maybe my engine break-in didn’t go right. Is there a way to test that theory? Like maybe I’d see glazing on the cylinder walls? What does glazing look like?

  2. Is a leakdown test a good test for subtle ring sealing problems? I’m pretty sure my head was really good, but I was still low on power. What if my ring gap wasn’t quite right, or some other relatively subtle problem was occuring that impacted cylinder leakage. If I get a good leakdown test does that positively exclude ring/cylinder wall issues? Like would a leakdown test indicate the there is no glazing?

The problem here is that I feel like I’m guessing about this “need a ring/hone job” effort. It seems like there ought to be a way to confirm whether it’s right or not, short of getting it redone.

A final thought. I cannot abide whiners. That being said, the car is in the dark driveway, my free time is 10PM to 1AM, and it’s 30deg out. I’ve been feeling a certain lack of motivation.

#177

On the engine stand I have a good (average power) spare motor. That is the engine that was in the 96 car and dynoed 152hp. It may be better than your spare engine and could give you breathing room to get this motor into good shape. And I have another motor with about 130k on it that has a bad head gasket or a warped head. You are welcome to use one of them, but you’ll have to come get it.

#178

That’s very cool of you but the only thing that I really lack for is time. Chances are the spare engine is ok except for a tired head. And with a spare shortblock beyond that, things would have to go really badly for me to miss CMP.

Next week I will finally have all the parts needed, but I’ll be skiing with Al instead of putting the motor together.

I can vividly recall a year ago when I was worn out after freezing my ass off thru 4 days of staking out Molitor’s shop, I had no spares and I had not the first clue how one might replace a motor. And I was 2 days out from CMP. This year I have 1.5 spare motors, gaskets, fasteners, hoses and somewhat of a clue. Not to mention conceivably 5 full days I could spend wrenching before CMP.

This is do-able.

If all else fails I could just bring the car, sans motor, to the race and push it on to the grid. There’s so many of us saying “my car is broke and I don’t care”, that 2nd place could push me around for a lap and we’d get 2nd and 3rd.

#179

Decent weather today, thank god. Pulled the pistons out and checked the rings. Rings seem ok. Tomorrow I just have to put the oil pump back in and I can button up the bottom end.

I also put in the coolant pressure sensor. It’s going into the block by using the coolant port that goes to the throttle body. I used about 12" of hose to remote it from the block’s vibration and heat.

In the morning I go fetch the head. I’ll put it on once I get the bottom end finished and the motor mounts fastened down. I’m going to do some leakdown and compression tests first so I have really good baseline data. Assuming that I am still a bit low on hp, I want to have data that can either give me some clues or rule out some possible causes.

If things go well I might have it running tomorrow. God it will be good to get it out of the driveway and into a brightly illuminated garage.

I checked my rod bearings closely. There are signs of scarring from particles. That’s what I get for having the engine and oilling system open so many times.

In retrospect I should have removed the engine right after RA. Everything is so much easier when the motor is on a stand. And putting the motor back in just isn’t that hard if you’ve someone to assist.

#180

Put in >8hrs today and didn’t get nearly as much done as I’d hoped.

One important lesson I’ve learned from this effort is that if you’re going to work on the bottom end, take the motor out of the damned car. Everything is so much easier on an engine stand. It’s also a helova lot easier to keep everything clean on an engine stand. If you’re going to work on the bottom end you have to do a fair amount of stuff just to lift the engine the couple inches necessary to remove the oil pan. You might as well remove the bolts to the tranny and just lift the motor out.

It would be nice if someone would make reuseable rod bolts. 12 bolts at $7 per is a pita. And the 70deg rod bolt tightening protocol can be a little awkward to estimate when you’re reaching around and behind things.

I got to wondering what torque the rod bolts were ultimately getting to. I noted that the 4cyl spec is 38-42ftlbs. I played around with it a bit and estimated it at 40ftlbs, which synchs nicely with the 4cyl spec.

Then I started putting in the crankscraper, only to find that the oil pump had to come back out because the scraper has to go in first. Grumble.

I put the crankscraper in with some high grip gasket sealer stuff. Thankfully the scraper had already been ground to fit, but I still checked counterweight clearance carefully. I tightened the bolts a bit and let it sit awhile so gasket goobage would cure and ultimately hold the scraper in place so I could install the oil pan. That plan would fail.

Some good globs of the bright red gasket goobage managed to drip into my hair and on to my face and neck. That’s a mess that will be there for a while.

With the gasket stuff not holding the scraper, I took some small C-clamps and used them around it’s edge. Then I got the oil pan in place and got a few bolts in, then started removing C-clamps as necessary, and put in the rest of the 400 oil pan bolts.

Interesting factoid…If your motor is in a stand, there are only 20 or so oil pan bolts. But if you are laying under your car fastening your oil pan in while debris falls into your eyes, then there’s 400 oil pan bolts. Each with a dab of low strength threadlock.

The torque for the oil pan bolts is 8ftlbs and fortunetely I had a small torque wrench from the cycling days. But the problem is that the cork gasket and the gasket goobage compress and that creates funny torque readings. I think that I did each bolt 18 times. That took a while.

Then I wrestled the motor back down on to the motor mounts and the car is off of it’s jackstand for the first time in 6weeks. That will please the neighbors.

I’d hoped to have the head installed and have done drip, compression, dry & wet leakdown tests by the end of today. Nope.