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What did the BMW Art Car say a few years ago - something like
"Protect me from what I want"
B)
IndyJim wrote:
[quote]
To benevolent dictatorships I say hurray, now can someone explain the basketweaves again. hahaha
my 2 cents, which is worth less then that.[/quote]
traqrat wrote:
That’s exactly what happened to the ITS E36’s this year. Less than a month before the first race of the season, the rules were changed regarding the intake restrictor plate, meaning a lot of racers had little or no time to test the mandated intake configuration.
I respect that the rules have remained stable since the birth of Spec E30, and applaude the benevolent dictatorship, but as a racer you want that one extra little bump to beat out the guy next to you. I haven’t even started racing and I have the fever. Even more comical is that there isn’t one Spec E30 racer in the SE section of Florida where I plan to compete.
I bought the car about six months ago and just started building her up slowy with a lot (I mean a lot!!!) of research. As you put your soul in to the car, you really want to win. I can’t help it if I want the extra edge, I’m just competitive in nature. Anyhow, I’ll stop boring you guys, just had to release that. Thanks again.
bimmerfreaks wrote:
That little extra "bump" you refer to is [color=#FF0000]the ability to drive[/color] not a chip that is better than the next guy. Who cares if can get the ultimate chip that allows you to smoke everyone in the straights???
If you want that… go play Granturismo on PS2, get the fastest car in the game and go race stock miatas. Did you win? sure you did!! Can you drive?? NOPE!!! Did you really win if you bought some cool gadget that made you that much more power?..or was it just your checkbook that won?
As a racer you really want to race the guy next to you and beat him in a fair race…and if you lose you want to know it wasn’t some stupid (insert modification) that let him win…just your inability to manage your tires, brake that last 2 feet later and get on the power that much sooner.
Personally I think we should add a rule.
If you haven’t turned a wheel on the track in a spec E30 car you shouldn’t be able to suggest a change. Because, and I know I will get corrected if I am out of turn, most of the people who have been on track with this group have no changes they want made!!!
(well all except the trunk light thing…)
Back to Spec E30 retirement…Still driving E30’s and will one day be back amongst the racing.
[quote]Personally I think we should add a rule.
If you haven’t turned a wheel on the track in a spec E30 car you shouldn’t be able to suggest a change. Because, and I know I will get corrected if I am out of turn, most of the people who have been on track with this group have no changes they want made!!!
[/quote]
AMEN!!!..Couldn’t have said it any better. Like it or not, having a finished car and participating in races lends itself to credibility. If posters lack "credibility" then they should refrain from making recomendations to change the rules.
brain
I don’t disagree in principle, but want to make the point that a lot of the Spec E30 newbies, like me, who have been building cars have found several inconsistencies and incomplete or unclear aspects in the rules. And a newbie to Spec E30 doesn’t mean the person hasn’t had racing experience.
cheers,
bruce
brain wrote:
[quote][quote]Personally I think we should add a rule.
If you haven’t turned a wheel on the track in a spec E30 car you shouldn’t be able to suggest a change. Because, and I know I will get corrected if I am out of turn, most of the people who have been on track with this group have no changes they want made!!!
[/quote]
AMEN!!!..Couldn’t have said it any better. Like it or not, having a finished car and participating in races lends itself to credibility. If posters lack "credibility" then they should refrain from making recomendations to change the rules.
brain[/quote]
[quote]I don’t disagree in principle, but want to make the point that a lot of the Spec E30 newbies, like me, who have been building cars have found several inconsistencies and incomplete or unclear aspects in the rules. And a newbie to Spec E30 doesn’t mean the person hasn’t had racing experience.
cheers,
bruce
[/quote]
Bruce,
I agree with you…If someone has raced in another series or even if they are brand new to racing and has a reasonable question wrt the rules then ask…that’s what the boards are for. Clarifications are great, no one wants to spend time building somthing only to find out they did it wrong because of a symantic misunderstanding.
I think the point that Ric and I were making is that questions like , “should we allow AM chips" is silly…not to mention it’s been asked and answered in other areas of the forum before.
I’m not trying to be the crusty old grump, but these kind of posts get alittle old. The rules work and are well written. I wish newbe’s would build a car and race before asking for changes.
brain
I agree about the basketweaves–I’ve whined enough and still don’t get it, but who cares. The rules result in a car that’s a blast on the track and I don’t mind that Carter has the first and last word.
The bumper rule seems a little irrational, too, but I like my big-ass bumpers and don’t care to change them. I do believe, though, that we could do a little to help with issues with the headlight covers and the trunk light. We have a minimum weight rule that seems like it could be a catch-all for miscellaneous trim pieces. What you can remove from the interior is well defined, so it seems that anything not off limits could be ditched so long as you don’t get too light. It seems that the rules are actually devalued by cars without things like the headlight covers technically being "illegal." Rules like this can seem petty, and I worry that enforcing them undermines people’s attentiveness to more serious infractions, i.e. choose your battles.
Sasha
A few comments, as we get ready for good racing tomorrow, as we had today at Mid Ohio…
No one on the track today even thought about chips.
No one on the track today even thought about whether he has plastic bumpers or aluminum bumpers.
No one on the track today even thought that he really misses his basketweaves.
If you are building a car, don’t make any change to the car, unless it is specifically stated in the rules. If you’re not sure about whether you can make a modification, look for it in the rules. If it’s not there, don’t do it.
Yes, we know that answering the same questions over and over and over is a part of the deal. And bringing up a question that has been discussed several times doesn’t make you a bad person, but some frustration will come out.
The rules are not perfect but they are stable, which is good for everyone.
Those of us who have been racing for many years (and some who are new) know how voting on rules only makes things more complicated and expensive.
The reason the rear light area covers are required is that it keeps things simple. If they can be removed, the air intake area will get very different and can increase costs as drivers try different things to try to get an advantage.
At the track today, no one wished they could have removed their rear light covers.
Once you build your car and come racing, the car is less and less important and the racing becomes the main focus. As I told the guys at GRM last night, it’s not about the cars, it’s about the racing.
Tim Suddard introduced himself to me at supper last night (I knew who he was) and told me that he was proofing the Spec E30 article, while on the plane the day before. While we were discussing this, Rennie from Redline BMW called to tell Tim that he has a perfect donor car for Spec E30. Tim was happy to announce their newest project car to me.
So we’ll have at least two cars in Florida. And I’ll probably go to Florida next year to race with them.
Wish us luck tomorrow as we race for the national championship.
Carter
Congrats on the spec E30 article and even better the PROJECT CAR!!!. This is going to be big.
Good luck at the races!!!
I like the rules the way they are. There is no advantage to chipping our cars. If it was allowed everyone would have to have them. What’s the point? We’re not racing against other types of cars with an advantage. I am in this to see how I compare to others on the track.
It may sound arrogant, but really, I think if going faster or modifying cars is your thing, you should look at another series (and I’m saying this as a general comment, not addressed to the original poster). I chose Spec E30 because of the tightly limited modifications. I would have gone into Honda Challenge most likely but they allow too many modifications; that means too much money spent just trying to get the car competitive, never mind my driving ability.
That the E30 is a nice platform is just a bonus to me. I’ve never owned a BMW before, and have no loyalty to the brand. I am pleasantly surprised how well engineered the basic car is, and how simple it is to work on (once all the annoying self diagnostics are removed!).
Carter wrote:
[quote]Tim Suddard introduced himself to me at supper last night (I knew who he was) and told me that he was proofing the Spec E30 article, while on the plane the day before. While we were discussing this, Rennie from Redline BMW called to tell Tim that he has a perfect donor car for Spec E30. Tim was happy to announce their newest project car to me.
So we’ll have at least two cars in Florida. And I’ll probably go to Florida next year to race with them.
Carter[/quote]
When is the GRM article supposed to be published.
Carter, let me know when you are coming to FL.
Don
Carter wrote:
[quote]A few comments, as we get ready for good racing tomorrow, as we had today at Mid Ohio…
No one on the track today even thought about chips.
No one on the track today even thought about whether he has plastic bumpers or aluminum bumpers.
No one on the track today even thought that he really misses his basketweaves…
Carter[/quote]
I caught the to the race on the live webcast today. I have to admit, as I listened to them spend most of their time talking about the battle in the Spec E30 class… chips, bumpers and light covers never crossed my mind either.
Congratulations and Great racing to all of you. Way to represent. I can’t wait to join in the action next year.
This thread has been a riot to monitor, as it’s struck me how thoroughly the oldtimers on this board have been "drinking the SpecE30" koolaid, so to speak.
Carter doesn’t even have to reply on this thread and half a dozen other guys are explaining why you don’t want chips, you don’t need chips, the cars are great, and so on. And, they’re right.
I was up at Mid-Ohio this weekend, and watching all the GTS/SpecE30 races, trust me when I tell you there was more cool true racing action with our Spec guys than in the 40-odd GTS cars. The GTS’ were just running around making noise, but there was some good racing going on in the Spec class.
Any more of you lurkers that are looking for a great class to run in where you can actually develop and use racecraft skills need look no further.
I’m glad this thread has been a riot to monitor, I honestly feel bad that I actually asked the question. I did not realize that this was such a touchy subject. Next time I think I will email the head honchos and keep this a private question, but thanks again for everybody’s input. It gives me a better feel of the Spece30 frame of mind.
bimmerfreaks wrote:
Bimmerfreaks, I think you misunderstood my point; it wasn’t about your question, it was that the guys who have been at this awhile have bought into the principles behind it, and enthusiastically serve as proxies for Carter when he’s away from the keyboard. Please, take no offense in my last posting.