Poopie Board for 2011

#21

FARTBREF wrote:

[quote]Gasman

Thanks for stiring the pot, Have Jones or Johan had even 1 contact report last year?? I didn’t make every race last year but I don’t remember hearing anything…

Why are you calling them out? I would expect them to take it kind of personally.

Al[/quote]

Johan took Damion out for the season in the first RA race this year. Don’t know about Jones, but he took Patton and Damion out of the first CMP race last year. I guess I’m calling them out because I haven’t gotten over it and don’t really give a shit. As far as taking it personally, I’m beyond that too. As I said in my first post, I agree with Steve that recklessness should be called out.

#22

[quote]Gasman wrote:

Johan took Damion out for the season in the first RA race this year. Don’t know about Jones, but he took Patton and Damion out of the first CMP race last year. I guess I’m calling them out because I haven’t gotten over it and don’t really give a shit. As far as taking it personally, I’m beyond that too. As I said in my first post, I agree with Steve that recklessness should be called out.[/quote]

You are what we call a troll on other boards!! That means you never post any useful or helpful info instead your posts are always aimed at starting an argument!! Most of the time it is a 16 year old doing the trolling though!!

I guess there is one on every board.

#23

Gasman wrote:

[quote]FARTBREF wrote:

[quote]Gasman

Thanks for stiring the pot, Have Jones or Johan had even 1 contact report last year?? I didn’t make every race last year but I don’t remember hearing anything…

Why are you calling them out? I would expect them to take it kind of personally.

Al[/quote]

Johan took Damion out for the season in the first RA race this year. Don’t know about Jones, but he took Patton and Damion out of the first CMP race last year. I guess I’m calling them out because I haven’t gotten over it and don’t really give a shit. As far as taking it personally, I’m beyond that too. As I said in my first post, I agree with Steve that recklessness should be called out.[/quote]
This post highlights the fact that there is about zero chance of independently determining who is at fault in a collision without good video from both cars. Some would argue that Damion took Johan out.

I would go fender to fender with Johan any day. I trust him to race hard and close, but predictable. Maybe it is fatalistic, but if that dude’s car ain’t broke, I let him by in a spot that isn’t going to f#ck up my race, then I watch and learn. Certain other guys hate to be passed even when clearly faster cars are coming through. If i just showed up in your rear view mirror all of a sudden, i might be doing it better than you, hypothetically speaking of course.

I have only raced against Damion once or twice. I remember him being pretty aggressive too.

I guess when a friend does it, it is “aggressive”. When a non-friend does it, it is “reckless”?

Jones took his beating over the CMP incident. Drop it. You weren’t even f#cking involved.

I am all for calling out reckless driving. On track contact is an indicator of recklessness, but it isn’t proof. If anyone on here wants to cast stones, post full race videos including your least proud moments and let history judge. The patterns will reveal themselves.

PS - Robinson should be banned for life. The way he hit the front of that Miata in Turn 3 with his rear quarter??? A hazard for sure.

#24

Guys, Damion called me yesterday afternoon and asked if I planned to participate in any of the sprint races next year. I told him it was hard to get excited about going out there only to have your car get torn up by some bonehead and that I would probably just stick to doing enduro’s. He commented that Robert had started a new thread on how to curb reckless driving; maybe I should go over there and post. For a moment I thought, what the heck, if we could get that squared away, it would be fun to race more often. I guess it was pretty stupid for me to think anything could change. Geez Robert, why do you start these threads before the beginning of every season?

Greg, your definition of “troll” would apply if I didn’t own a spec e30 and wasn’t an identifiable member. When thinking of troll, think of Teddy. I still recall the anger you directed toward me for questioning the wisdom of racing on used tires, so I have to assume you still have an axe to grind with me. I’ll let Ranger (and Chuck) remind everyone about the wisdom of racing on used tires if they so desire. I’d be willing to bet $20 that I could get a car through race tech on corded tires.

Steve, your original post said we should call people out for reckless driving. I didn’t see any qualification for backing it up with video evidence, but would agree with that comment too. Maybe I can borrow your foot cam. I was not involved in the wreck caused by Jones at CMP which took out Robert and Damion, but I was directly behind it and a witness to it. Anyone that has done a race lap at CMP knows full well there aren’t three racing grooves going into turn four. Indeed Jones has taken his lumps for that accident, but how many more has he been involved in since then?

Brian my good friend, I’m not trying to be rude, I just think you are a better body builder than you are a racer. For sure you look better in a Speedo than me.

Jimmy, I see you are still honing those comedy skills. Will DTOM racing have that badass car ready this year?

Damion, feel free to engage

#25

Gasman wrote:

I think this got cross-posted from specmiata.com. Did the site get hacked again?

#26

Steve, maybe you should watch the footage again. There weren’t three cars racing for position at turn 4 when the incident happened with Jones. Only Jones and Patton. Damion was collected after the initial contact between Jones and Patton.

Watch for youselves, but I hardly see this as reckless:

http://vimeo.com/groups/SpecE30/videos/3146932

#27

Thanks for posting the video. You can’t see Damion is outside of Patton with Brian’s video camera. Patton had the racing line going into that turn and was forced into Damion’s car…taking both of them out. Sorry, but I’d call that reckless.

#28

That is absolutely false. If you were there or had seen all of the videos you’d know that. Damion was behind them when the wreck happened. I still contend that Patton and Jones were equally at fault. He could have not chopped down on Brian just as easily as Brian could have lifted out. However, I’m not a steward so it doesn’t matter what I think. I guess that’s the main point, I don’t confuse my opinion with fact or that people are interested in it.

The stewards at the track decided it was Brian’s fault and dealt with the situation in the manner they saw fit. If Damion or yourself have a problem take it up with them. Don’t come to a public forum (two years later) and point fingers and make reckless accusations.

#29

Gents, this is the world’s worst place to poke folks in the chest. Praise in public and criticize in private pls. Brian took his lumps for this, lets move on. If folks started recollecting all of the stupid things I’ve done, I’d get a case of the ass too.

No matter how tempting it is to publically vent frustration, do it in private. The “community” of SpecE30 is the envy of every race class that is familiar with our epic tales of how much we help each other. Don’t piss all of that away just because you were not strong enough to sit on your hands and hold your angry tongue.

#30

Lets not lose sight of the purpose for this discussion. For me, it is about curbing bad driving so that I could rationalize or justify coming back. I don’t know how to do that other that mentioning the ones who have been the primary culprits. Have you guys forgotten about me being taken out in turn 1 lap 1 at CMP and having nothing to do with it? Can you tell I haven’t forgotten? Maybe it would have been easier if someone had volunteered to pay for my repairs.

#31

Gasman wrote:

If my eyes are right, the clock on the video runs for 4 seconds between Jones’ tap of Patton’s rear quarter and the impact of Damion coming through. Not sure how that jives with what you say happened.

I am not implying that I would have done anything different from Damion. First lap, aggressive driving, you gotta capitalize on the mistakes of those ahead to make up positions in a close spec class. When that move works out, both leading cars spin harmlessly out of the way. When it all goes pear shaped, they spin together and you are the meat in the sandwich.

In my experience, you can decide for yourself how much you want to put on the line. If you don’t want to re-tub the car, perhaps you lift a little sooner, wait a little longer to see how things sort out.

Gotta be the one in front? You are going to have to put yourself in unsure situations. And not all of those will pan out.

Every time I go on track, I hope and plan to bring my car back in the exact same condition (with a little less gas and tires). But I also know I might not bring anything back but scrap. That is a risk I am willing to take for the enjoyment I get. If that equation doesn’t work for a particular driver, I beg them to not put a car on track.

At the end of the day, I agree with Gasman. Let’s curb bad driving. But none of us is a good judge/jury/executioner by ourselves. Without really good video, Monday morning quarterbacking is - clearly - pointless. The vote will always come down along party lines.

PS - I like the idea of bringing shame to drivers who are involved in contact. I tagged an M3 at NJMP when he parked it at the apex after diving inside me. It was clear 50/50 damage on both cars and I paid him to fix his car. Compare that with the side-to-side contact that Walsh and I had coming out of Turn 5 in the Toy Race when a PT-something checked up at the apex. That contact had much greater potential for a bad outcome given where it happened on track. But by the CCR, no report was necessary, no damage was visible… I was just lucky to rub someone who could keep the car pointed ahead as he launched through the gravel. Which one was more egregious driving? The RA one. Which one would put me on the Poopie Board? The NJMP one. I guess at the end of the day, as long as turds like me get on the board, that is what counts.

#32

Ranger wrote:

Awesome use of the Lieutenant General Hal Moore quote.

/salute

#33

99% of the damage on Jones car is from him driving into walls all by himself. You’re mistaking mistakes with bad driving. I have happily driven side by side with Brian and Johan and would do so again any race. Its the guys like you who scare me, you’re probably just better in your mind than you are on the track. We had a 32 car field last month, if you don’t want to come back then don’t. Are we supposed to care? It’s racing, let’s shut up and race already. Or “race” if you so prefer in your enduros.

#34

Good grief…I’m going to ignore you Evan.

Honestly, I can’t see the “wall of shame” idea catching on as a way of correcting the problem of reckless/bad driving. And I understand it would be hard for someone to shell out the race entry fee and commit to the race weekend without a guaranty that seat time was achieved by all. What I think might work is to create two classes within each classification and have separate races. The lightning race would be for the top 25 spec e30 qualifiers, the racer wannabe class would be run by anyone not qualifying in the top 25 and by anyone having body contact in the previous race. Effectively two races each race day instead of one. Anyone having body contact would automatically be relegated to the racer wannabe class for the next three races. The racer wannabe class gets no points, no trophy and no accolades.

#35

Gasman wrote:

[quote]Good grief…I’m going to ignore you Evan.

Honestly, I can’t see the “wall of shame” idea catching on as a way of correcting the problem of reckless/bad driving. And I understand it would be hard for someone to shell out the race entry fee and commit to the race weekend without a guaranty that seat time was achieved by all. What I think might work is to create two classes within each classification and have separate races. The lightning race would be for the top 25 spec e30 qualifiers, the racer wannabe class would be run by anyone not qualifying in the top 25 and by anyone having body contact in the previous race. Effectively two races each race day instead of one. Anyone having body contact would automatically be relegated to the racer wannabe class for the next three races. The racer wannabe class gets no points, no trophy and no accolades.[/quote]

First off, I do not hold a grudge toward you Steve. Honestly I completely forgot about the tire argument until you brought it up. On the other hand I do now remember beating you on those used tires that weekend B)

This new idea of yours like the previous will never work, and no one would agree to it. Under that scenario a top 5 guy who misses qualifying due to a mechanical would not be allowed to race for points that day, which would never fly. The next problem with the idea is where on the schedule would you find room for another race. That means the sub race group would be bunched into the lightning race anyway. If a fast driver was penalized into running in this sub group they would have no trouble coming trough the field, you would have to race with them anyway.

This thread is about limiting on track incidents not limiting field size. The large fields are what draw new racers into our group. As drivers we should encourage growing the group not shrinking it. Honestly if I wanted to race in a small class I would have built a Honda Challenge car.

#36

How many cars should there be on a track before it becomes unsafe? If we have 25 e30’s and an equal number of Miata’s and Porsche’s is that too many? I’m asking…honestly don’t know. I think having a smaller field as I suggested will do three things.
1.) safer races.
2.) more care to avoid body contact, (who wants to race in the wannabe field).
3.) Equals the playing field and actually gives inferior drivers the opportunity to learn more, while making quick drivers take care not to make the critical mistake of relegating themselves to the wannabe class.

Oh and Greg, I remember having to check up to avoid hitting one of my friends broadside…so yes you beat me on used tires. Lucky once? Probably. Twice? As I said ask Chuck how he feels about someone racing on used tires.

#37

Gasman wrote:

[quote]How many cars should there be on a track before it becomes unsafe? If we have 25 e30’s and an equal number of Miata’s and Porsche’s is that too many? I’m asking…honestly don’t know. I think having a smaller field as I suggested will do three things.
1.) safer races.
2.) more care to avoid body contact, (who wants to race in the wannabe field).
3.) Equals the playing field and actually gives inferior drivers the opportunity to learn more, while making quick drivers take care not to make the critical mistake of relegating themselves to the wannabe class.

Oh and Greg, I remember having to check up to avoid hitting one of my friends broadside…so yes you beat me on used tires. Lucky once? Probably. Twice? As I said ask Chuck how he feels about someone racing on used tires.[/quote]

Jim has the option to close registration if he thinks the field is just to large. At CMP for the IFU Jim put PT and Honda Challenge in with Thunder to limit cars in Lightening. The options as the field grows is to limit entries or create another race group. A third race group doesn’t make any sense for just a couple cars but if you have 30 extra cars it does. 32 cars at IFU is still a once a year thing. Most normal race weekends will see around 20 Spec E30 cars. If we could grow Spec E30 to the point 32 cars signed up every weekend then it might be time to find a spot on the schedule for that third race group. They’ve done it before! I remember seeing Thunder, Lightening and Blitz on the schedule. In the end the logistics are left up to Jim and Julie and they do a pretty damn good job every weekend.

Safe and Races really don’t belong in the same sentence but I know what you’re asking. Ultimately it comes down to the drivers to respect each other. A field of 25 has the same chance of a big incident as a field of 30+. Penalizing the slow drivers isn’t the way to go!! I can’t remember the big wreck ever involving the last couple cars on the grid. Some of these drivers attend every race weekend and are in the top ten in points every year!!

No matter what we do wrecks will happen, that is the sport!! The best drivers in the world can’t avoid it!! That doesn’t mean we can’t take actions to limit them as much as possible, what action needs to be taken I’m not sure. That is what we are trying to figure out in this thread.

Tire debate belongs in another thread!!

#38

This thread should be deleted… People, please just shut up and drive (if you so choose). Let’s openly police reckless driving at the track and be done with it… Our class rocks because lots of cars = great competition = tons of fun. Let’s keep it this way!

#39

As a future se30 racer I must say that the top 25 idea is retarded. Whoever posted that should be blocked from the forum for a month.
If I wanted to race by myself I would have put a cage in my turbo car and ran gts.
For whoever asked the SCCA did and still does as far as I know limit the field to everyone within 20% qual lap time of the leader. So if your slow enough that you’ll be lapped in the first 5 laps then you can’t race. They don’t limit the size of any class.

#40

Turbo329is, I would ask if you are really entitled to an opinion if you haven’t experienced the problem? Maybe after a few years of racing you might agree with me.