points

#1

What started all this???

I ask for the form so we could collect our 2nd place Toyo money ($500) and
ask for the form and if the results had been posted yet. Shawn e-mailed me a
link for the results ( Final results are posted.)

http://socal.drivenasa.com/points/

Ok so I click on to the results and it do’es not show the Vogel Boys Racing
#59 any points for the last two races at Button Willowfor Nov 5&6 2011. I
than E-mailed Shawn and ask what had happened and he said

Mike:

I think what happened is that when you guys registered for the last
event, Patrick registered under his name and not under “Vogel Boys
Racing”. He scored points for the last 2 races under his name.

I tried to fix this with Ryan after the event but he denied my request.

As far as the 3 race drops, I do not know why that changed. The rules
clearly show there would only be 2 race drops for the season.

Please contact Ryan at rflaherty@drivenasa.com for any questions on
these issues.

Shawn Meze

When shawn called me he than says that he spoked to Ryan after the points
had been posted. NOT (I tried to fix this with Ryan after the event but he
denied my request.) Yet Shawn you did not think this would have any impact
on our points standing or what? I am told that Ryan had deied the request
because Patrick entered under his name. This is a bold lie and can be proven
if they would just look at the NASA entry form where I paid for three races
in advance and got the last one free. Every entry was made by me and was
under Mike Vogel / Vogel Boys Racing. Every one at NASA only knows us as
Vogel Boys Racing and Patrick is only a TEAM DRIVER like I am, he has
nothing to do with entering a race. After Shawn telling me again there was
nothing he could do I ask him to grow some family jewels and help us out and
then he hung up the phone on me. I have all the e-mails for all our entries,
and about us all asking about how races we woul drop (2) ?? what is goig on
here and do’es anyone care. Shawn please feel free to correct me if this is
not what has happened or I have not told the truth in any way. You are our
head tech and support for Spec E30 and I ask you please do not turn your
back on this matter and stand up and fight for one of your guys.

Mike Vogel

#2

Does toyo have a seperate season payout schedule? I was only aware of the race by race payout.

#3

Mike, if you have the all the e-mails from your entries, you should point that out to Ryan? It is not Shawn’s responsibility to do this for you. He does not have the e-mails. It could be possible to register for the last event under Patrick’s name and not under Vogel Boys. All you needed for the free last event was the promo code. That could have been done under Patrick’s name even though the previous races were under Vogel Boys. That being said it is our responsibility to make sure our names are right at registration. Just as it is our responsibility to make sure our transponders are working. You should have realized this when Patrick’s name was posted on the results after our first practice. It should have read “Vogel Boys”.

Did you really think that telling Shawn “to grow some family jewels” was going to get the outcome that you wanted? This is not the first time you have approached Shawn and other officials with this attitude. It did not work then and I am sure it will not work now. I know you come from many other types of racing. This approach may have worked in your previous racing endeavors. It will not work here. I know your fellow racers don’t like it. I am sure the officials don’t like it. All it causes is tension in the garage area with your fellow racers, and officials that are not going to go far out of there way to work with you. Remember that Shawn does this because he loves racing and our series. He does not get paid. He does not even race with us, or very rarely. I think he had all the right to hang up on you. He should not have to put up with that. He said he made an effort to fix YOUR mistake. I am sure he tried. There is no “bold lie”. If he said take it up with Ryan that is what you need to do.

Allan

#4

Turbo there is a regional championship payout. Check it out…

http://www.nasaproracing.com/contingency/toyo_tires/2011%20NASA%20Rebate%20Award%20Application-Regional%20Championship_1-1-10.pdf

Allan

#5

Mike, Allan is making some good points.

Send a detailed email to Ryan with all your data. You should deal with him directly. You may or may not get the remedy you seek.

Calling Shawn a liar is not a gentlemanly thing to do. I am sure you mean no harm but it won’t help. I have found Shawn to be a man of Integrity in my dealings with him. I can tell you that Ryan in SoCal and Jerry in NorCal and no doubt the other Regional Directors have a lot on their plates and they DO require that we watch and check the transponder sheets our selves. Sadly I have had the same thing happen and Jerry was not obligated to fix it. If it is Ryan’s fault I am sure he will correct it. If not then it is a lesson learned.

This does bring up some good reminders for all of us. We need to carefully read the rules and follow up and follow up quickly. The directors do not have enough time to police every thing everyday. I have lost contingencies in the past because I did not redeem soon enough, as an example.

I don’t know the details, so please understand I am not placing blame on VBR, just take the steps to seek a remedy, do it with kindness and respect.

I hope it works out positively and peacefully. remember we do this for fun, for kicks.

I look forward to seeing all of you next year.

Kevin Nichols

#6

Gentleman,

This forum is, in my opinion, an inappropriate place to handle this matter. As all of you have seen, matters with racers are always handled quitely and between the series director (sometimes with the asst. director, too) and the racer. Rarely are the details aired out in a public forum. I think that Mike’s frustration with the situation got the best of him and he vented when he could not get Shawn to respond to his heated demand(s). Truth be told, I would have done the same because any form of disrespect doesn’t work with me either.

Furthermore, Kevin is absolutely right in that there is a lesson to be learned in all of this. There is a HUGE take away from what has happened…read the rules, know what they say and understand your responsibility as a racer. And much more importantly, respect the officials who run our group and within the sanctioning body we run under. They have a huge burden to carry not just at every event, but leading up to and following those events. Rules 23.1.1 (Good Sportsmanship) and 23.1.2 (Unsportsmanlike Conduct)exist so that our racing is kept at the level it is meant to be.

I know you are all aware of the fact that the racing community is a small world and what is not seen is usually heard about. We all need to live in the motorsports community cooperatively, or we may choose not to. Either way, our reputation is built on other’s perceptions of us. So one should always consider their actions and what the result of those actions might not only be now, but in the future because nobody wants to be “that guy.” The way I see it, character is not what you do in front of people, it is what one does when nobody is looking; or at least you think they are not.

That being said, I feel Allen has noted what I would have suggested anyone do in this situation. If your series director has not obtained the result that you feel is fair, advise the director that you would like to file a protest with the sanctioning body and:

  1. Re-read the rules and make sure you have a valid point.
  2. Organize your evidence and support for your position so it is clear and understandable.
  3. Identify and contact the correct official.
  4. Respectfully ask permission to file a protest or contest the action you have a problem with.
  5. If given permission, present what you have and wait patiently for a reply.
  6. Whatever the result, have a logical and just rebutal if you do not agree and present it in the same manor.
  7. Accept the second answer you get and move on. Anything past that and you are tempting fate. If you didn’t make you point within two presentations, there is nothing that should indicate 3-4 more tries will work.
#7

I wondered onto this topic because I’ve been using the recent topics tab more than the index lately. I really had no idea that there was a regional championship payoff from toyo. VegasVogel I really wouldn’t wan’t to upset someone who was already pissed off about some BS. BS happens and it sucks. I could write books about how I’ve been fucked over more than anyone else.

#8

To all SE30 racers. I need to apologize to Shawn for the letter I posted
publicly on this site. I should have kept this between Shawn and myself. I
am sorry if I questioned his integrity or his honor. I am sure he has done
all that is in his power to help us and I thank him for that. This matter is
in Ryans hands with NASA and I am hoping for the best and will keep a
positive out look.

Thanks
Mike Vogel

#9

Thanks to Ryan and Shawn this matter has been taken care of and we are very happy and thankful of the results.

Thanks Mike Vogel