On a more positive note... lets talk tires.

#1

I ran most of last year on 2-3 year old tires. My impression was, these feel fine. For the last race of the year, I decided to man up and bought a set of fresh shaved ones. My impression was holy crap, where have you been all my life.

What’s the middle ground? At what point do great tires become decent, and decent become bad?

4 heatcycles? 8? 12?

Getting 3-4 race weekends out of a set seems pretty doable. While I doubt I’ll ever buy 3 year old tires again, buying brand new ones for every weekend is also somewhat unrealistic. What is everyone else doing?

#2

The same thing you’re about to do: Buy new, run for 3 or 4 weekends, repeat. Use the news on rear and the used on front, intermingle as needed.

RP

#3

Robinson only ran new every race. You can judge for yourself about those results. Maybe it’s the talent to tire ratio that needs to be the true consideration for this thread.

DeVinney runs R888’s on the street. He told me that it’s because he really needs extra seat time. So he daily drives an E30 with R888’s [vert with the top down, so his locks can blow in the wind- makes it feel more like a Miata while still connecting with his BMW - that conversation creeped me out].

Al Taylor has only run on new tires ONCE in his lifetime if I remember accurately. And I’m pretty sure his car broke that time. And then it got bent up the next (same new tires). It just wasn’t meant to be.

Skeen only ran pretty much new-ish tires because Toyo bucks burned holes in his pockets.

Results vary drastically. Not sure there’s a one fit for all rule.

I’m personally with Patton. Run new, a few races, then sell or donate to racing’s equivalent of Goodwill (aka Al Taylor).

#4

Age is also an issue. If you can, store your tires in garbage bags in a controlled temp environment. The object is to slow the loss of esters, or whatever it is in the tires that make them soft. Being a cheapskate I did a lot of the Al Taylor approach but I’m going to get my head out of my butt this year and do the Patton approach.

Some good lessons were learned being a cheapskate tho. 1yr tires can be pretty good even if they’re pretty worn. 2yr old tires aren’t as good. 3yr old tires will just frustrate you because no matter what their state of wear they just can’t grip.

#5

My new one weekend tires are resting quietly in my nice warm garage; I guess I should put them in bags to help keep them soft. Now that I have ABS, I don’t have to buy new tires every weekend. It’s much more economical with proper brakes…

#6

TheRedBaron wrote:

You really should post on here more often. Not because you’re funny, but because I am afraid you are gonna pull a hamstring reaching so far to stuff all your wit into one post.

I told you, I bought a $600 set of wheels so I could wear out the rest of the tread on my $300 now-illegal rain tires. That’s the kind of math skillz that allow a guy to race for years and years and not think it costs very much.

Stickers every session this year, bitchez.

PS - This is just for you Evan: These tires (while not as much as Hoosiers) seem to benefit from running one good heat cycle, then letting them rest for a couple weeks. It doesn’t seem to enhance the grip so much as the durability. That’s why you will see me with stickers at Sunday races.

#7

Ranger wrote:

[quote]Age is also an issue. If you can, store your tires in garbage bags in a controlled temp environment. The object is to slow the loss of esters, or whatever it is in the tires that make them soft. Being a cheapskate I did a lot of the Al Taylor approach but I’m going to get my head out of my butt this year and do the Patton approach.
[/quote]

This Ranger guy is no ones fool…

2 years ago I bought a set of used, shaved and heat cycled tires from a random guy for $20 a pop… Deal! I used them at my comp school and a few subsequent events where driving balls out was important. The tires were date stamped 00 and 01…

I ran equivalent lap times to my 1.5 year old tires, in fact I had one lap where I was faster, I put this down to better weather conditions and growing familiarity with the track and I am pretty sure RA1’S used to have a softer compound - ie a 140 wear rating. The tires were stored in bags in the back of a garage in a cabinet.

10 year old tires stored correctly worked well for me for 3 track days before finally running out of black stuff - I think they wore very quickly in comparison. (softer compound???)

#8

Planning to get my first shaved set at RA in March, and I was wondering if there is a recommended shaving depth or vendor with superior shaving skills… I’m currently leaning towards our trackside supplier. This is like my most anticipated purchase since I bought my car! :laugh:

#9

Gilles wrote:

I think most people recommend 4/32nds for depth. Personally I did 5/32nds cause im a cheapskate and I wanted to make sure they were still good for instructing a DE or two after they are done as race tires. They were fast enough for pole both days at CMP in november.

I do recommend asking the shaver not to take ALL The rubber off the edges. Some of the miata guys like that but it makes the tires cord awfully quick. Ask them to leave you some shoulder.

#10

If anyone has used tires they wouldn’t mind parting with, I will gladly purchase some.

#11

Tire life depends on the track also…

I have plenty of gently used 888 DE and practise tires $100 a set delivered to CMP Feb.

Al
Hates buying new tires

#12

I am currently accepting donations. I’ll let you write your name on the sidewall so we can call it a DE sponsorship. They don’t even have to be toyos. Right now I think I’ll put the turbo car on blocks and use the 17s off of it for DE.

#13

How long you can go on tires is much more about the driver and car setup and a lot less about the actual age or heat cycling of the tire. I won a national championship on 45 heat cycle RA 1’s in 2009 in my Factory Five. Half the field throws them in a dumpster when they are at 20 heat cycles in that class. Most that I have talked to, regardless of car class, say the RA-1 is fastest right before it goes through to the cords. I tend to agree. I shave to 4/32 and tell them to leave a lot of meat on the shoulder, since I grind shoulders down. The tire places all shave them differently, so you have to tell them what you want and hope they actually do it.

#14

If I buy em unshaved will they last longer. I won’t be trying to break any lap records for a while.

Al do you have 14s?

#15

turbo329is wrote:

[quote]If I buy em unshaved will they last longer. I won’t be trying to break any lap records for a while.

Al do you have 14s?[/quote]
Full tread will last longer unless they get too hot and blister. But instead of buying full tread and sucking up the loss of traction (prob 2secs/lap), you might consider just buying a cheaper tire. I think NTO1 and Falcon Azenis are cheaper.

There’s downsides to getting used to one tire and than racing on a different one, so this is no slam dunk. But you can explore tires that are $40ea. cheaper than the RA1, so it’s prob worth looking into.

#16

turbo329,

I’m still running DEs and I recommend the Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Spec. They make it in 195/60/14, and they’re $100 each on Tire Rack ($75 each when I bought last year). I have 7 days on them, and there’s still plenty of tread left. Good wet grip, so they’re overall very good street/track tires.

I still need to decide if I should go for 14" or 15." Anyone feel like bottlecaps or basketweaves put you at that much of a disadvantage?

#17

The 14 inch size has been discontinued so I will eventually need 15s. I plan on buying a set of dforce from phil’s tire and the cheapest tires they have are the ra1. If I buy tires elsewhere I will need to pay a local place for mounting and balancing. I assume I get free mounting and balancing from experts if I buy the whole package from Phil’s.

#18

you want 15s for racing in the dry, the extra wheel width and lower profile provides sharper handling. weaves are preferred since they’re 6.5" wide, bottlecaps are only 6". i have two sets of weaves myself, one with full tread ra1 (rains) and another for whatever cheap tires i can get for DE use.

#19

You can find some pretty decent deals on wheels 200-300 for the set on R3VLimited.

On a different note, looks like 205/55/14 has been discontinued by Toyo. So looks like we all will be running 205/50/15 in rain or shine (or snow, plenty of which here in Charlotte)!

#20

I bought 15" Kosei K1s and 205/20/15 Kumho XS tires mounted and balanced from Tire Rack for my 6 DEs last year and they still have tons of life left in them. I feel like they were only about $600 shipped. Most of my instructors were very impressed with the grip they provided. I am looking to try a set of RA1s this year, and I will probably go unshaved for my first set.