Oil Pan/Oil Control

#1

I am beginning to get quotes on a custom oil pan for the M20 motor. To ascertain whether or not this is economically feasible, I need to know what racers are willing to pay for a custom aluminum pan. Please answer below. Thanks, Chuck

#2

Chuck,

It depends.

Features? - I have been wacthing the threads so I think I have an idea but many others may not know the features. Will it have a pre-drill hole for temp gauge sensor for example?

Benefits? - Why do we need one?

Price? Delivered?

As I mentioned above, I have been following the threads, I like your ideas, and I am am sure I would like to have one. Having said that, there is a cost benefit relationship and considering I am so broke that I can’t pay attention right now, even it if was a good deal, I probably would not buy one for a season or two (assuming my current engine stays together).

Don

#3

With sensor capability, including baffling, including a crank scraper/windage tray, I’d be willing to pay ~$200±a little bit. Otherwise I could fit the feature mentioned on my own and be done with it.

#4

Pan will be manufactured either by Canton or Moroso…those are the two who are quoting.

The stock pan runs $350.00, and a crank scraper runs about $75…if you can find that for $200, let us all know.

With discussions with the above manufacturers, oil control would be improved over my non professional rendering. Moroso is supposed to send me a copy of M3 pan they did in which the oil control will be similar.

Yes, it does have an oil temp fitting, for a mechanical gauge.

No, it will not have a crank scraper…you will have to furnish your own. Chuck

#5

Chuck - I think the problem with looking at it that way is, most people on this board if they needed a new pan would buy a junk yard / internet deal for $75 vs. going to the dealer for the $350 new one.

That said for one that increased oil capacity and had baffles, etc. I think $350-400 is a reasonable price. If you go much higher than that I doubt you’ll see anyone take the bait since you’re probably into custom one off territory then.

Even at $350 - 400 history has shown us that no one is cheaper than the SE30 guys so I wouldn’t plan on a lot of high volume since I imagine people will chime in “I can buy a junkyard M20 for that much”.

So that limits your market to the crazy (Ranger), the lazy (me), or the uber competitive and independently wealthy (Steve D.)

My $.02 cent YMMV.

#6

For $0 I can “fix” my current pan up with other other bits, that’s why that cost is not included. If I’m out looking for a brand new pan, then I can afford to spend a little more.

#7

Chuck,

I sorta posted to this before. I am gonna guess Canton or Moroso is gonna come back with a 600-700 dollar range. I looked at a few manuf in China, but they all want high volume.

I gave up, because the prices were more than I feel Spec e30 owners and E30 owners are willing to pay. The best bet would be to find someone that can build them at home as a hobby / side business. I wish I still had my TIG and I would have made at least one or two just to try them out.

Good luck I hope you prove me wrong.

PS, I think under 500 dollars you will have a few buyers, over 500 and IndyJim is right. Don’t forget about all tuners and turbo guys on the other boards, they will want a couple too.

#8

There is already a pan that is developed but not ready for the market yet. Cant comment on price but it should be competive. Stay tuned…

Drive-gear.com
"we rent spec e30’s"

#9

IndyJim wrote:

I’m not uber competitive, just naturally faster than you. BAM. :laugh:

I’m not wealthy, Jim. All the money I used to have is tied up in currency. And cars. Retirement is overrated.

Steve D.

#10

Then you’ll have a hard decision to make - super cool oil pan vs. another non running semi junk ‘sports’ car for your museum or shoes for the kids…

#11

IndyJim wrote:

Tough decision between the oil pan and parts car… Damn kids have too many pairs of shoes already.

I guess I am good up to $500 on the oil pan if Robinson buys one. Most of the Southeast guys will balk at the cost of the extra 4 quarts of oil, much less the pan itself.:blink: :laugh:

Steve D.

#12

My Oil Pan business case shows a breakeven of 2012 provided I can offset the cost of the pan and extra oil by selling Al my used oil at $3 / qt. I adjust that +$1 a year to cover inflation and the eventual rise in oil prices.

#13

Chuck, if you get track data from an oil pressure sensor that shows pumps running dry w/ the OEM pan and pumps not running dry with your oil pan, people will line up outside your door.

#14

Ranger wrote:

What’s wrong with the pump running dry if your car runs for 2 1/2 years without any problems? You know I pushed Mr. Junky as hard as anyone running an E30. Actually I was hoping the motor would break so I could move on to Mr. Trashy.

$500 would buy a nice used motor.

#15

csrow wrote:

[quote]Ranger wrote:

What’s wrong with the pump running dry if your car runs for 2 1/2 years without any problems? You know I pushed Mr. Junky as hard as anyone running an E30. Actually I was hoping the motor would break so I could move on to Mr. Trashy.

$500 would buy a nice used motor.[/quote]

We’re still real early in the data collection on this. But next year there will be at least 2 of us with hard data on oil pressures different tracks. And then I’ll be able to say “ok, my car was down for all of 2009, but my 2010 data shows…”

And it sounds nice that one could just “put in” a junk yard motor, but that’s what I did and look how that turned out. First, my junkyard motor turned out to be weak so I put a new head on it. I would later find out that the junkyard motor wasn’t even a B25.

The new head consumed 2 months because I was tired of halfbaked screwups and insisted that the head pass compression, leakdown and drip tests. I lost a month testing my 3 heads every which way to make sure I knew what I was doing. Ultimately I sent the new head back when it didn’t pass the tests. I lost another month getting the head fixed.

The head fixed, the junkyard motor was strong. But, for christ’s sake, it’s bearings were suddenly shot. So then I had to rebuild the bottom end and that was another 6 weeks or so. And now a shop has screwed up and my shiny new head is ruined.

And most of us can’t just swap a motor by themselves as a weekend project. The book price for that is 17hrs of shop labor.

Screw junkyard motors. For those of you that have made it work, more power to you. But I’m not doing that again. If I had gone to Brendan or Chuck and had one of them build me a motor I’d have saved a fortune. It cost me $2k to get the local shop to help me build the bottom end and then diagnose the clanking sound. Even tho I did most of the work. Then their (probable) error cost me a $1900 head. That’s $4k in the last 3 weeks and doesn’t include the $1800 or so of parts and machining that go into a bottom end rebuild.

No more junkyard motors for me. Should I need a motor in the future it will be a Brendan or Chuck special and I will have a motor that is entirely a known commodity, and I’m going to do everything I can to protect it. If the data shows that a custom oil pan is effective, then I’m there.

I am not going thru this again. I’ve had girlfriends that were less aggravation then that.

Now that I’ve gained a lot of experience, maybe I’d go ahead and build it myself. But as tired as I am right now, the idea of Brendan or Chuck building a motor is awfully attractive.

#16

People, a custom pan is going to be over 600$…no way around it. The insides are complicated so that the oil pickup can not be uncovered. Complicated means time consuming and that means cost. You are looking at a 3/8" rail with a 1/8" body and insides. These are not trivial. If y’all want to be cheap and replace bearings instead of controlling the oil, that is your decision.

There are a few of us who will buy this pan. I do not plan to spend $6000+ and sit on unwanted pans. If you want a pan, email me off the forum at cwbaader@centurytel.net and I’ll see what we can do for a less than 10 price.

I’m disappointed to say the least. Chuck

#17

Chuck -

Do you have an updated schematic for the new-and-improved model (Moroso quasi-m3 pan)?

I wouldn’t be surprised by the ahem thrify nature of SE30 racers. The class seems to attract folks who think the cars are pretty damn bulletproof.

Throw some photos/schematics up and explain to us non-engineering types how the pan keeps the pump submerged and you might get enough orders for your limited run.

Steve D.

#18

Acutally Moroso has sent me a drawing as an example… however, I can’t post it because it is a pan made for a vendor and it belongs to themC. Suffice to say, there is a great deal happening in the sump area. Chuck