Oil and Coolant Loss at the track

#1

I took my car to Shenandoah at Summit Point this weekend and it did great until Sunday afternoon when the car cut out on me in the middle of a turn. I noticed a little smoke from the engine bay, but the crowd said that they saw a lot of white smoke. Once I came to a stop, I noticed some of the white smoke in my side mirror coming from the rear of the car. I couldn’t get the car to restart, so I was towed back.

The car lost a gallon and a half of water. It also lost oil going from almost the full mark to the low marking. We didn’t see any traces of oil on the track or where I came to a stop. I could see oil in the engine bay and it appeared to be coming from the oil filter, but it was hard to tell. When I added more water, I noticed that the water in the reservoir was milky looking. However the oil on the cap and dip stick looked fine…just low. I pulled the spark plugs and they were all dry and the tips looked good. When I looked under the car, it looked like the oil leak was coming from the oil filter, but the filter was tight. Also, the reservoir cap for the coolant may not have been tight. FYI, this is my first time at the track since having someone install an oil scraper. Any ideas what the problem might be? Thanks.

#2

Too many possibilities.
Coolant loss could be from loose cap, but that doesn’t explain white smoke.

White smoke isn’t conclusive about anything.

Milky water could mean oil in the water. Do a coolant flush and see what happens to next load of water.

Clean up engine block and figure out where oil is coming from.

#3

Ranger,

Was just looking at an old post from you where you mentioned the reservoir and/or caps stripping. I think that may be the case with mine. Although would it lose a gallon and a half?

I had the car up on a trailer and it looked like the oil was coming from the oil filter, but I’ll try to get it up on a lift and look more carefully.

What else should I do/look for?

Oh, forgot to mention that the coolant gauge was not in the red when I came to a stop…it was in the 1/2 -3/4 range.

#4

[quote=“swooper” post=65964]Ranger,

Was just looking at an old post from you where you mentioned the reservoir and/or caps stripping. I think that may be the case with mine. Although would it lose a gallon and a half?

I had the car up on a trailer and it looked like the oil was coming from the oil filter, but I’ll try to get it up on a lift and look more carefully.

What else should I do/look for?

Oh, forgot to mention that the coolant gauge was not in the red when I came to a stop…it was in the 1/2 -3/4 range.[/quote]

Folks will tighten the coolant reservior cap too tight and threads will strip. Once heat pressurizes the system you could dump all sorts of coolant out.

If the oil traces don’t create clarity as to where the oil leak is coming from, clean the block off and drive it a bit.

#5

I actually had that happen to me a couple weekends ago at NOLA. The threads on my reservoir were bad and I was losing most of the water in the reservoir each session. With that being said it sounds to me like you blew your head gasket.

#6

[quote=“swooper” post=65964]Ranger,

Oh, forgot to mention that the coolant gauge was not in the red when I came to a stop…it was in the 1/2 -3/4 range.[/quote]

The coolant temp sensor is located in the top of the thermostat housing. As a result, dumping a little water uncovers the sensor and renders it useless. You could overheat and the temp needle will never move…

I hate to be pessimistic, but the white smoke is indicative of coolant in the combustion chamber and likely came from a leaky/blown head gasket. It kinda sounds like you did overheat. Because your oil pressure is much higher than your coolant pressure, your missing oil likely escaped into the coolant system only to leak back into the combustion chamber and help create smoke out the exhaust.

Worst case, you have weakened piston rings and a warped/cracked head. Best case, your bottom end is fine and you just need to replace your head gasket. That being said, it’s rather hard to determine what’s wrong with your bottom end, if anything, without tearing it apart.

Good luck and I hope I’m wrong!

#7

[quote=“FishMan” post=65980][quote=“swooper” post=65964]Ranger,

Oh, forgot to mention that the coolant gauge was not in the red when I came to a stop…it was in the 1/2 -3/4 range.[/quote]

The coolant temp sensor is located in the top of the thermostat housing. As a result, dumping a little water uncovers the sensor and renders it useless. You could overheat and the temp needle will never move…

I hate to be pessimistic, but the white smoke is indicative of coolant in the combustion chamber and likely came from a leaky/blown head gasket. It kinda sounds like you did overheat. Because your oil pressure is much higher than your coolant pressure, your missing oil likely escaped into the coolant system only to leak back into the combustion chamber and help create smoke out the exhaust.

Worst case, you have weakened piston rings and a warped/cracked head. Best case, your bottom end is fine and you just need to replace your head gasket. That being said, it’s rather hard to determine what’s wrong with your bottom end, if anything, without tearing it apart.

Good luck and I hope I’m wrong![/quote]

Thanks. This sounds like what may have happened. That’s interesting regarding the temp needle, I was really surprised to see that the temp needle given that I lost a gallon and a half of water.

What about the oil loss and the car cutting out. Would those occur with a blown head gasket?

Its looking like I’m going to need a new motor. What are my options? Thanks.

#8

The oil and coolant likely escaped past the head gasket, into the combustion chambers and out the tail pipe. Considering the overheat, you’ll most likely need new rings and the head completely worked. The problem with motor work is that it leads to the “while you are in there” complex and costs add up quickly. For a proper engine build with .020" pistons, expect to spend north of $2.5k on parts and $1.5K at a cheap machine shop. Expect to spend more with a reputable engine builder.

Low mileage used engines are a great option! I believe Ranger has one for sale with a refreshed head.

#9

Well, I’m going to tow my car into a friends shop to check out the damage. Will put it up on a lift to inspect the oil leak and will probably also do a leak down test. Anything else that I should look at while I have it there?

Also, does anyone have any recommendations for reputable places to purchase a rebuilt engine? Thanks.

#10

Swooper, where do you live?

#11

I live in Virginia, just outside of DC.

#12

Swooper,

Reading through this I do concur that the car probably did overheat and that a ahead gasket at a minimum is due.

On the appearance of an oil leak at the filter, a relatively commomn leak location on cars with oil coolers is where the filter housing mounts to the block. I think the seal (or o-ring I am not sure which) is a simple repair. That might explian the oil in that area.

I think Fishman is right that Ranger has an engine for sale at a good deal. Plus, on Saturday at CMP I was litening to him explain to Andy Greensheilds how to rig a low water pressure switch. He lost me half way through the dissertation but I am share he’ll share it with us again.

Good luck figuring out the issue and hopefully a head gasket and o-ring is all that you will need.

Don

#13

[quote=“donstevens” post=66088]Swooper,

Plus, on Saturday at CMP I was litening to him explain to Andy Greensheilds how to rig a low water pressure switch. He lost me half way through the dissertation but I am share he’ll share it with us again.
[/quote]

Pull the OEM oil pressure switch (7psi) off of the block. It’s near the oil filter. Put in a 12mm (I think) to 1/8NPT adapter in the OP switch’s port and remote a real OP sensor to that location. If you want to get more tricky, remote in a little manifold and connect both an OP sensor and an OP switch. Or, VDO sells a combined sensor/switch (7psi) that you can put in there. Personally, I’m partial to an OP switch more along the lines of 20psi, so although the dual sensor is convenient, IMO it’s not ideal.

Then go to the intake side of the block. There is a hose that goes from block (near starter) to throttle body and then to thermostat body. Remove that hose (actually 2 separate hoses), and figure out some way to plug the thermostat body’s port. I think I used a big screw with a bunch of RPV. Or maybe I tapped it or something, I dunno.

Then pull the hose barb out of the block. It will be rusted in there so put some liquid wrench on it and be sure to get the socket on it nice and square. Once the hose barb is out, thread in the OEM OP switch that you pulled out from the other side of the block. Now you have a 7psi coolant switch. Reuse the harness connector that went to the OP switch.

#14

[quote=“Ranger” post=66090]

Then pull the hose barb out of the block. It will be rusted in there so put some liquid wrench on it and be sure to get the socket on it nice and square. Once the hose barb is out, thread in the OEM OP switch that you pulled out from the other side of the block. Now you have a 7psi coolant switch. Reuse the harness connector that went to the OP switch.[/quote]

I’m going to attempt this next week. Is the hose barb threaded into the block? I’m assuming that it is and that I won’t have to tap a thread. I’ll take pictures as I am doing it also.

Andy

#15

Yes the coolant hose at the back drivers side of the block is the same thread as the op switch on the bottom passenger side. OP sensors are too big around to fit up next to the block in the op switch area so you need to remote it.

#16

The common wisdom is that pressure sensors shouldn’t be fastened directly to blocks because they won’t last long due to heat and vibration. Altho I follow this practice, I can’t say that I have any independent confirmation. Therefore my OP sensor and switch are remoted.

The OEM OP switch, however, was designed to be fastened to the block so it should be good in it’s new role as a coolant pressure sensor.

Yes, the hose barb is threaded into the block. Use a brass washer when threading the pressure switch in.

#17

Ok. I just did a dry compression test and the all cylinders were very low 70-100 PSI. I did a wet compression on cylinders 1-3 and the results were about the same as the dry compression. I also did a leak down on cylinder three and could hear air coming out of the tail pipe, cylinders 2 and 4 and I think near the air intake. I looked again and the oil leak does seem to be coming from near the oil filter. So, what do you all think? Should I pull the head and check the block?

#18

I would not pull the head because once you do that there’s no more compression testing.

I’m suspicious re. the compression testing results. I would connect a battery charger to the battery for a while, get it good and charged, and with the charger on do the compression test over again.

Pull all spark plugs.

Use something to hold your throttle body open a bit.

Do 1-6 and then 6-1. If you get different results for #1 that tells you that your battery is weakening and it’s affecting results. Keep at it until you get uniform results. Then post the #'s so we can interpret them.

The problem with pulling the head to examine the block is that unless there’s a hole in a piston or debris banged the crap out of a combustion chamber, there isn’t much to see. Sometimes you can see evidence of a blown HG, but other times that’s just guesswork. The important thing is to be certain of your compression testing before your pull the head. That way you absolutely know that one of the cylinders is messed up and you really don’t care what you find when you pull the head off.

#19

I would not pull the head because once you do that there’s no more compression testing.

I’m suspicious re. the compression testing results. I would connect a battery charger to the battery for a while, get it good and charged, and with the charger on do the compression test over again.

Pull all spark plugs.

Use something to hold your throttle body open a bit.

Do 1-6 and then 6-1. If you get different results for #1 that tells you that your battery is weakening and it’s affecting results. Keep at it until you get uniform results. Then post the #'s so we can interpret them.

The problem with pulling the head to examine the block is that unless there’s a hole in a piston or debris banged the crap out of a combustion chamber, there isn’t much to see. Sometimes you can see evidence of a blown HG, but other times that’s just guesswork. The important thing is to be certain of your compression testing before your pull the head. That way you absolutely know that one of the cylinders is messed up and you really don’t care what you find when you pull the head off.[/quote]

Ranger,

I did cylinders 1-3 twice dry and again wet, with all of the plugs out. In each case the numbers were within a few PSI of each other…sorry, don’t have the numbers here, but were all in the 70-80 PSI range each time. (I only did cylinders 4-6 once dry) The battery seemed to be cranking strong throughout the process, but I guess I could try again.

#20

Why didn’t you do all six cylinders?

What leak down numbers did you see? I’m going to guess that it was way over 15%, in which case the head needs to be rebuild since you could hear air leaking past the valves.