No Spark! Help!


#1

So I’m in desperate need of help to get my car back on track. The basic problem is that the engine has no spark, but here’s the back story on where I’m at.

-I blew the motor from my 90 325i with a bad shift on the track.
-Got an 89 325i parts car, pulled the engine and installed it in track car.
-Tried to start and turns over great, but doesn’t fire.
-Pulled a plug, no spark.
-Brand new parts on motor: ignition wires, plugs, distributor cap, rotor.
-Moved ignition coil from a known working car.
-Crankshaft Position Sensor tests good. (514 Ohms resistance, within 1mm of gears.)
-Tested that I’m getting 12V to main relay.
-Stomp Test for ECU returns 1444 (the all’s good code)
-Checked realoem w/ VIN’s and the ECU’s are the same part number.

So what am I missing? Did I forget to plug something in? Is there something else to check? Been working on this so long now and I just want to get out there to the track. Any help at all is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Adam


#2

Spark at the coil?

Pos and neg leads at coil wired correctly?

You’re absolutely sure you have no spark, correct?


#3

if the small wire from the battery is not connected, the engine will crank but not fire.
bruce


#4

+/- on coil are definitely right (leads are different sizes, so hard to mess up.)

I’ve got voltage at the coil, but no spark from the main coil wire.

I’m not sure what the “small wire at the battery” is. I’ve just got the big main attachments to the battery in the trunk. I’ll double check for something else back there.

Thanks for the help so far and I’ll report back when I’ve learned something.

Adam


#5

Re. the small wire. Identify the big wiring cluster just forward of the engine’s firewall, right side. There’s a big wire and a small wire coming from the battery. At this stage that small wire isn’t so critical.

On the engine side of that cluster, are 3 wires as I recall. A big one that goes to the starter, and then a number of other wires that end in two connectors. Just make sure that those connectors are connected to 12V. After getting the engine started, you can worry about getting everything in that cluster connected properly. There’s a good thread or two here about kill switches that explains it.

I’m a little surprised about voltage at the coil. The coil works by getting a 12V square wave I think. But maybe instead of 0-12-0, it’s 12-0-12. That would explain 12V at the coil but no spark. Jim Levie or Chuck Baader can probably clarify that.


#6

Try switching the two plugs side by side as illiustrated in the image. Both are identical and can be mixed causing no crank TDC signal:woohoo: . Could not upload
image. The plugs that are located directly in front of the oil dipstick, underneath
the Service Reset plug, to the left of the #1 intake.

Markus


#7

#8

boschltd wrote:

[quote]Try switching the two plugs side by side as illiustrated in the image. Both are identical and can be mixed causing no crank TDC signal:woohoo: . Could not upload
image. The plugs that are located directly in front of the oil dipstick, underneath
the Service Reset plug, to the left of the #1 intake.

Markus[/quote]
Markus means the plug on the spark sensor (On plug wire #5 or 6 I forget which) and the CPS plug.

You haven’t mentioned if you’re getting fuel. Pull the fuel line at the rail to confirm. Don’t burn your house down. DME will start fuel pump if it sees crank rotation via the CPS.


#9

The two most common mistakes that occur in an engine swap are swapping the Cylinder ID and CPS connectors and swapping the fuel supply and return. In the former case you won’t have spark when cranking the engine and in the latter case no fuel in the rail.

If the CPS connection is correct you will see 500-560 ohms across pins 47 & 48 in the DME connector and an open circuit when you disconnect the CPS. If those connectors aren’t swapped, run through what’s below to find the problem.

For the engine to run the following conditions must be met:

Power on DME pins:
27 Start Input
18 Un-switched Power input
37 Power Input from Main Relay

Ground on DME pins 2, 14, 19, 24

Timing data from the CPS on DME pins 47 & 48 from a rotating engine

To have spark power must be present at the coil positive and ground pulses
from the DME’s pin 1 must reach the coil negative. Power to the coil is
controlled by the ignition switch via C101. When checking for spark, use the
output lead from the coil to eliminate the distributor, rotor and plug wires.

To have injector firing power must be present at each injector and ground
pulses from the DME’s pin 16 (Bank1) and pin 17 (Bank2) must reach the
respective injector bank. Note that the injectors are wired as two banks of
three. With cylinder 1,3,5 being bank 1 and 2,4,6 being bank 2. Power to the
injectors is controlled by the main relay.

The fuel pump relay must have power on pin 86 (relay coil) from the main relay
output (pin 87) and power on pin 30. The DME will ground pin 85 to turn on the
relay and power the pump(s) via pin 87. Of the above, only the fuel pump power
is fused. So if the there’s power at pin 87, but not at the pump, check fuse
11.

The main relay and DME pin 18 receive power from the smaller of the two wires
that connect to the battery’s positive terminal. That wire incorporates an
in-line fuse. When the DME is presented with a start signal, it grounds the
main relay pin 85 and furnishes power to the fuel pump relay, injectors, and
DME.

Troubleshooting:

Disconnect the battery and the DME cable. Then:

  1. Disconnect the coil negative and check continuity from that connector to
    DME pin 1. Also verify that from DME pin 1 to ground is an open circuit.

  2. Check the resistance across DME 47 & 48, which should be 500-560
    ohms. If the CPS is dismounted, the resistance can be seen to change
    from about 500 to 540-560 when a ferrous object is brought to the face of the
    sensor. Neither pin should be grounded.

  3. Check for continuity from DME 36 to main relay 85 and from DME 3 to fuel
    pump relay 85.

Reconnect the coil, remount the CPS (air gap should be 0.040"), plug the
relays back in, reconnect the DME, and connect the battery. Then do the
following checks:

  1. With the key off, verify that power is present at DME pin 18 and main relay
    86 & 30.

  2. With the key on, verify that power is present at DME pin 27 and pin

  1. Power to pin 18 is from the main relay and there should be power to the
    injectors and fuel pump relay.
  1. With the key on, verify that no voltage is present at the DME grounds (2,
    14, 19, 24).

  2. Verify that power is present at the coil positive and at fuel pump relay
    pin 30. Those get switched power from the ignition switch via C101.

The engine will start and run (if poorly) with only those connections to the
DME in place. The other signals from Cylinder ID, AFM, temp sensor, etc., are
necessary for proper operation. But they won’t prevent the engine from firing.

IMPORTANT:

A power check means seeing a voltage within about a tenth of a volt of what
you measure across the batter terminals, which should be at least 12.6v on a
charged battery.

A continuity check means seeing less that 1 ohm of resistance.

An open circuit means seeing a resistance of at least 100k ohms.

A good quality auto-ranging Digital Multimeter will make these tests much
easier.


#10

Thanks again for the post. Work finally let up enough for me to take a look at things.

Bad Sign #1 - I’m seeing Power on DME 18, 27 and 36, not 37 as per your post
Bad Sign #2 - I’m seeing continuity between DME 1 and ground (also to coil negative)

So does this imply a bad Main Relay? Or am I about to hunt down for a pinched wire? I have these deep seated fears of a pinched wire between the transmission and firewall or trans tunnel that happened during the engine sway.

Checks that passed:
Ground on DME 2, 14, 19, 24.
510 Ohms between DME 47 + 48

Thoughts?

Adam


#11

My advise would be keep it simple. Unless something spontaneously burned out or got damaged during the swap and the issue of wires swapped which was already covered isn’t an issue then logic would point at your brand new parts or your parts which came off the parts car assuming it wasn’t running. If you didn’t test your new cap and rotor etc. before installing them perhaps you should replace them with the parts from the blown motor. I admit that a cap and rotor shouldn’t be defective but it would be a coincidence if something else busted during the swap.


#12

I agree with your thinking on keeping it simple, but I’m not sure what parts came over that would be giving me the problem. I already replaced distributor cap and rotor. None of the electronics or sensors came over. I was worried about something being incompatible between the model years, but that looks to not be a problem.

I’m thinking maybe I got some kind of power spike during the install. Battery was dead, so I had to trickle charge it and maybe something went wrong with that.

I’m going to try swapping out the relay’s from another e30 I’ve got access to and see if that helps. Its easy enough that its worth a try.

Adam


#13

I swapped in all the relays from the other car it fired right up.

Thanks a ton to everyone for the help. Hope to see people out at the track. If you see the blue and white #330, come by for thank you beers.

Now on to bleed brakes and finalize things for track trip,

Adam