New weekend format ?

#21

edavidson wrote:

[quote]Sean - correct me if I am wrong, but as I recall, there was no sprint race on Sunday last year because of the enduro. So, it seems like 2 sprint races this year is a better deal than last year!
Ed[/quote]

You guys didn’t get two races? We did in '44Cup. We ran "inside" the enduro. Basically, after the first 20 min or so, there was a checker for us. At the race meeting Cobetto said "if you are an enduro driver and you see the checker after 20 min and come in thinking it’s the end of a 4 hour race, you don’t belong on the track" in response to someone asking what would happen if they came in early by accident. Pretty Funny.

EDIT - I just recalled that I wasn’t there last year for the VIR event :unsure: and I was thinking about 2 years ago. However, I know 44cup ran two races.

Isn’t the fee $269? It’s only about $20-$40 more than last year. Same as I told someone else (or maybe it was you). Show up and I’ll feed you and that can be the $40 difference. Bought an 8lb pork loin for the event, should grill up real nice.

#22

Hmm, I’m confused. Seems like there’s folks on the board who prefer to keep Sunday as practice-qual-race rather than the possibility of qual-longer race, and also feel like the price should be lowered to compensate for a few less minutes of total track time? Maybe I missed something, since this thread has taken many twists and turns.

Aren’t we out there to race, not to drive around? Doesn’t the extra 15 minutes of racing more than make up for giving up a 2nd weekend practice?

How many times has the checker waved as you muttered "dang if I just had a few more laps I would’ve got that guy!!"

If more practice sounds better than more racing, then … what? I can’t even finish that sentence.

#23

ctbimmer wrote:

[quote]Hmm, I’m confused. Seems like there’s folks on the board who prefer to keep Sunday as practice-qual-race rather than the possibility of qual-longer race, and also feel like the price should be lowered to compensate for a few less minutes of total track time? Maybe I missed something, since this thread has taken many twists and turns.

Aren’t we out there to race, not to drive around? Doesn’t the extra 15 minutes of racing more than make up for giving up a 2nd weekend practice?

How many times has the checker waved as you muttered "dang if I just had a few more laps I would’ve got that guy!!"

If more practice sounds better than more racing, then … what? I can’t even finish that sentence.[/quote]

I can understand the confusion given the back and forth nature of this discussion, there are two issues being batted around:

  1. A new possible format that would alter the way sunday’s schedule has historically been. The debate on this topic is whether people prefer the current set-up of a practice in the morning, or to skip the practice and instead have a slightly longer race. No one is complaining about the change in total minutes here, but rather providing opinions on which scenario they would prefer.

  2. The second topic relates to this seasons first event at VIR. It seems that NASA is charging the full dual sprint race rate for the weekend, yet at this time is considering only providing a race on sunday of the regular length and not providing either a practice or qual session before it. The issue here is that because of the afternoon enduro, they are low on available track time and had to cut time somewhere in order to facilitate the enduro. I think the issue here is not that NASA wants to cut the time, but that they want to cut the time, charge the full rate, and not alert the racers of this change in track total time.

My point is simply that NASA needs to tell people when they do something like this and let the competitors then decided whether or not they want to pay the full sprint race rate yet only receive 75% of the usual track time. I believe that Sean posted up here that the schedule is still not finalized so I am not sure what is actually going to happen, if anything different.

#24

ctbimmer wrote:

[quote]

If more practice sounds better than more racing, then … what? I can’t even finish that sentence.[/quote]

Exactly! :woohoo:

That’s why I quit PCA. About 80 min of "driving around" and 30 min of racing for about $400. I’ve done hundreds of laps at most of the tracks that I raced with PCA on, why do I need another 80 min driving around? If I wanted that, I would go back to Driver’s Ed.

#25

jonmca wrote:

[quote][b]
2. The second topic relates to this seasons first event at VIR. It seems that NASA is charging the full dual sprint race rate for the weekend, yet at this time is considering only providing a race on sunday of the regular length and not providing either a practice or qual session before it. The issue here is that because of the afternoon enduro, they are low on available track time and had to cut time somewhere in order to facilitate the enduro. I think the issue here is not that NASA wants to cut the time, but that they want to cut the time, charge the full rate, and not alert the racers of this change in track total time.

[/quote]

Again, is this different from the past several years? The times that I have been to VIR for the Feb event ('05, '04), we never had additional sessions on Sunday because of the enduro, it was always Sunday grid determined by Saturday’s results.

I think that Shawn stated that VIR raised track rental rates quite a bit (90%?) and, again, $269 for a two race weekend, no matter how many other sessions we get is still the best deal around financially.

Maybe they didn’t feel the need to "notify" everyone because this is typically the format for the event?

#26

IMPO I would rather have a longer race than a practice session. If you like going out and practicing all day then just do HPDE’s. :ohmy:

#27

Here’s how I plan to practice: pay my hard-earned money so y’all can kick my ass, and hopefully I’ll learn something from it!:laugh:

Sasha

#28

Ex36 wrote:

[quote]Here’s how I plan to practice: pay my hard-earned money so y’all can kick my ass, and hopefully I’ll learn something from it!:laugh:

Sasha[/quote]

I’m behind Sasha on this one :lol: :unsure: :pinch: :S

#29

MikeD wrote:

I understand your viewpoint, however the Practice sessions serve many purposes such as providing a way to warm up the cars and drivers prior to qualifying, give the drivers a chance to see the condition of the track (especially if the weather is changing), etc.

Now if an argument was made to reduce the practice sessions to say ten minutes, remove the pace car lap, and increase the race time by 10 minutes, I would be all for it.
Just another idea.

#30

Jon, this is one of those "Carterisms." You know, "once you get on the track and start racing the ----fill in the blank---- will not matter." Save for the initial Saturday shakedown run ( and given a choice I would forego that run too), in the practise runs versus added race time debate, the added race time always prevails. Sorta like the "Carterisms" always prevail. Now, let’s go racing.

Sasha and Scott, come on down to NASA SE, we drive slower.

And, for what it is worth to the other SE racers, I talked to Pantas about the extended race time on Sunday and Jim was already aware of the concept. We may see it at some NSAS SE races this year.

Regards, Robert Patton

#31

Patton wrote:

+1, we don’t need no stinking practice especially on Sunday. You can get warmed up and see the track in qualifying. There isn’t much to adjust on these cars so lets just get to the racin B)

#32

jonmca wrote:

[quote]edavidson wrote:

[quote]Sean - correct me if I am wrong, but as I recall, there was no sprint race on Sunday last year because of the enduro. So, it seems like 2 sprint races this year is a better deal than last year!
Ed[/quote]

And follow up question, being as last year was only one race, what was the cost of last year’s event?[/quote] Last year there was one sprint race and the price was 169.00.

#33

jonmca wrote:

[quote]nasaregistrar wrote:
[/quote] Jon,
the schedule is not finalized so everything is speculation. Don’t get all upset until you see the official schedule. Remember we added a sprint race for this event where there never has been one before and VIR raised the rental rate for the track 90%[/quote]

Sean,

All I said was that I think it is unfair, that is not "getting all upset." I would just hope that if the schedule is finalized, racers should be either compensated for the reduction in time or atleast should have been informed ahead of time that they will not be receiving the usual track time despite the price increase for the sprints. Currently there is no reason to believe that if I pay for the sprints that I would not receive for the generally accepted weekend schedule. I understand that VIR raised the rate a material amount.
I think you know that I am not out for NASA blood, but rather think that we should all be on the same page as we move forward.

Jon[/quote] Sorry Jon,
I came across wrong in writing that.

#34

jonmca wrote:

[quote]ctbimmer wrote:

[quote]Hmm, I’m confused. Seems like there’s folks on the board who prefer to keep Sunday as practice-qual-race rather than the possibility of qual-longer race, and also feel like the price should be lowered to compensate for a few less minutes of total track time? Maybe I missed something, since this thread has taken many twists and turns.

Aren’t we out there to race, not to drive around? Doesn’t the extra 15 minutes of racing more than make up for giving up a 2nd weekend practice?

How many times has the checker waved as you muttered "dang if I just had a few more laps I would’ve got that guy!!"

If more practice sounds better than more racing, then … what? I can’t even finish that sentence.[/quote]

I can understand the confusion given the back and forth nature of this discussion, there are two issues being batted around:

  1. A new possible format that would alter the way sunday’s schedule has historically been. The debate on this topic is whether people prefer the current set-up of a practice in the morning, or to skip the practice and instead have a slightly longer race. No one is complaining about the change in total minutes here, but rather providing opinions on which scenario they would prefer.

  2. The second topic relates to this seasons first event at VIR. It seems that NASA is charging the full dual sprint race rate for the weekend, yet at this time is considering only providing a race on sunday of the regular length and not providing either a practice or qual session before it. The issue here is that because of the afternoon enduro, they are low on available track time and had to cut time somewhere in order to facilitate the enduro. I think the issue here is not that NASA wants to cut the time, but that they want to cut the time, charge the full rate, and not alert the racers of this change in track total time.

My point is simply that NASA needs to tell people when they do something like this and let the competitors then decided whether or not they want to pay the full sprint race rate yet only receive 75% of the usual track time. I believe that Sean posted up here that the schedule is still not finalized so I am not sure what is actually going to happen, if anything different.[/quote]

There is no reduction of track time, just a reorganization of the same amount of time. The enduro was SHORTENED by 30 Mins to accomodate a second Sprint race for all classes. Just so it is clear, nobody loses any time.

#35

Sean,

My vote … GREAT IDEA! 40 minute races on sunday would be awesome. Given are cars or so close it would really allow for some great competition.

Carlton
GrassRoots Motorsports celebrity

#36

Carlton wrote:

[quote]Sean,

My vote … GREAT IDEA! 40 minute races on sunday would be awesome. Given are cars or so close it would really allow for some great competition.

Carlton
GrassRoots Motorsports celebrity[/quote] The big reason for the 40 minute races is that is the Nationals format and we need our regional drivers to have practice with a race of that length. Fuel management, tire management, etc need to be worked out in advance. It was unknown territory for those of us out at Mid-O last september.

#37

I like the idea of a longer Sunday race. When I was racing with SCCA and had to adjust suspension parts, the carb, etc, practice was important.

However, our cars are simple and generally run well.

I vote for the 40 min race.

Carter

#38

nasaregistrar wrote:

And a cake-walk for us PCA racers who regularly do the 90 min. format.

#39

erupert66 wrote:

[quote]nasaregistrar wrote:

And a cake-walk for us PCA racers who regularly do the 90 min. format.[/quote]
yes but 40 mins means more fuel and those who have setups that bring them in close after a 25 min race with a full tank need to do a little math.

#40

After the 40 min. National Championship race, everyone ended-up ok on weight; so it wouldn’t be a class-wide problem.

But Sean makes a good point. Get out the calculator.

Carter