Lack of ABS a deal breaker?

#1

Hey, I’ve got an 85 325e that I have been considering building into a spec e30 as I slowly transition from the HPDE ranks to hopefully racing in a spec series. I’ve considered my options and think spec e30 would be my first choice as far as spec series go.

I’ve been trying to get an idea of what I’d be getting myself into in converting an e to an i, and given the state of my chassis (really solid), I don’t find it too daunting. I am a bit concerned about the lack of ABS on my car, though. How involved would an ABS retrofit (probably while swapping motors) be? Is it something that would be easy enough to yank from the same car as the motor, or would the wiring be a nightmare to integrate?

Honestly I’m aware that it’d probably just be easier to find an entire 325i somewhere and build it, but the idea of slowly building my current car appeals to me for several reasons, namely the facts that it is in my garage and it’s in awesome shape.

thanks a lot

chase

#2

Seems to me that might be something of a challenge, but doable if you have a donor car for parts. The wiring issues probably aren’t that big of a challenge, just pull what you need from the donor. I think that you’ll also have to swap the front struts & knuckle, but I don’t know if the rears on your 85 would have the toothed wheel and sensor mount. If those aren’t present you could get the complete subframe from the donor. And, of course, you’ll have to re-plumb the brake lines. It would be an interesting challenge…

#3

Sounds like a nightmare to me. Personally I think you’d be better off to sell the sweet eta and use the funds to buy a cosmetcially rough “i”. You are going to have to buy a donor anyway.

Don

#4

donstevens wrote:

[quote]Sounds like a nightmare to me. Personally I think you’d be better off to sell the sweet eta and use the funds to buy a cosmetcially rough “i”. You are going to have to buy a donor anyway.

Don[/quote]

1000% agreed. You’ll have plenty of work on your hands building an “i” up… why make it that much worse?

It would be different if the cars were expensive and you were saving a buck, but that’s not really the case!

#5

Don’t even think about adding ABS unless you were born with a wiring loom in your mouth. Aside from the challenge of the physical plumbing, and the need to source many parts (sensors, etc.) the fundamental wiring harness was changed sometime in 1986 (notice the engine harness plugs into the fuse box via a rectangular plug, not the famous round one), so you can’t even plug-n-play to bring the ABS unit to life.

#6

I would not worry about the lack of ABS. There are plenty of Miatas out there without it, and they get along fine. I drove one myself for years and did not miss it.

Chris

#7

he has to have it eventually because there are no models allowed that don’t have it.
bruce

chunt wrote:

[quote]I would not worry about the lack of ABS. There are plenty of Miatas out there without it, and they get along fine. I drove one myself for years and did not miss it.

Chris[/quote]

#8

FJ40runr wrote:

Don’t forget about the 3rd option: buy a car that’s already built to SE30 specs.

The choice depends entirely on your motivation.

Do you relish the prospect of spending the next 2 years tinkering and/or cussing in the garage, then having a car to (maybe) race? If so, get going on the e-to-i conversion.

You absolutely can’t do it quicker or cheaper than buying a built car. Unless the cage is made out of muffler tubing, I can’t think of a better deal than buying a race-proven car from somebody for $15k.

I wanted to get on track quickly, so I bought my first car (first DE in 10/04, race license at Panoz in 1/05, bought a built car in 2/05). I am glad I didn’t try to build that first one because I didn’t know enough to even know what build choices to make.

I built my second car over this past winter because I finally felt like I knew exactly how I wanted it built. I now have a car that is worth about 1/2 what I spent on it, but I love it. I know everything about it from a mechanical and safety perspective.

If you want to be racing in 2009 and your car is clean and solid, sell that gas sipper and start with a built car!

IMHO, YMMV, my $0.02, etc.

Steve D.

#9

leggwork wrote:

[quote]he has to have it eventually because there are no models allowed that don’t have it.
bruce[/quote]

Good point, although I suppose you can read the rules and interpret that as long as the weight of the resulting car is the same as the engine donor model/year, he may be ok.

I’m with the crowd that believes this would be too much bother, however. I’d go find a 325i.

The ‘buy an already prepped car’ is also likely the best/smartest idea.

Chris

#10

Thanks for all the input everyone. Looking around, I’d be dumb not to just pick up a 325is, as cheap as some of them appear to be.

As much as I’d love to be able to go race tomorrow, it just isn’t possible right now. I’m in the middle of school, and the cashflow is lacking, to say the least. I also am admittedly one of those people that enjoys the build a lot as well, so it’ll be a fun project for me.

chase

#11

FJ40runr wrote:

OLD FOGEY ALERT
UNSOLICITED ADVICE ALERT

Do NOT - I repeat Do NOT - start this crack habit that young!

If I had spent nights and weekends during/just out of school tinkering with a car instead of working my a$$ off 50-60 hours a week…

It takes a lot of time to study, get established in a career, go to grad school, or any of the other stuff that you need to do to be able to truly afford frequent amateur racing.

Think of this as an opportunity to study the real Econ 101. In school, Econ 101 is based on the assumption that people act rationally. To show you the irrational economic decisions that you will make as a racer, I will gladly send you my current build sheet for my E30. Compare that to the prices in the classifieds and you will clearly see that my brains have leaked out of my ears.:blink:

Thank God I didn’t discover this sport until I was 37.

At that point, I could justify buying a $15k racecar. If I had to write it off, I’d be upset but it wouldn’t change my retirement date.

In the meantime, do DEs, flag corners, buy $500 325s to fix up and sell, or whatever. But don’t light that pipe!

Steve D.

PS - In the very likely scenario you ignore this advice, Welcome! See you on track in a couple years!:woohoo:

#12

no, that is like saying I can take my 325i car and start deleting things as long as I meet weight.
thanks,
bruce

chunt wrote:

[quote]leggwork wrote:

[quote]he has to have it eventually because there are no models allowed that don’t have it.
bruce[/quote]

Good point, although I suppose you can read the rules and interpret that as long as the weight of the resulting car is the same as the engine donor model/year, he may be ok.

Chris[/quote]

#13

Thanks for the warning Steve, I’m aware of what a horrible venture $$$ wise any type of racing can (does!) prove to be. That’s why this is still all on the back burner for me for now. In the mean time, I figure I can have fun (learn) with an E30 doing DE’s like you said, while adding spec e30 legal parts.

In the whole scheme of things, it won’t really matter whether I do this in my eta or a car that actually has a potential future as a spec car, but I can’t help but want to be able to drive my car with the idea that it’ll one day be my race car!

And this whole car addiction thing has been a lifelong affliction, just in different forms (my landcruiser), thanks for the welcome!

#14

Real race cars do not have anti lock brakes. They just slow you down:dry: The only time they will help is in the wet if you have little experience. Still, an experienced driver can stop quicker in the wet and dry without nannies:woohoo: Chuck

#15

cwbaader wrote:

There was a big fight about this over at BF.C a couple months ago. The drivers said that they are better than ABS and the engineers said that “modern” ABS was better then drivers. “Modern” never really got defined.

If folks had felt any more strongly on the issue they’d a hunted each other down and left heads on pikes.

My ABS didn’t used to work. I’m not a very experienced racer but I felt comfortable that I could detect the onset of lockup. But what I found is that I could not always detect it. It depended on the car’s balance, speed and track surface. I flat-spotted a lot of tires as a result.

Our ABS may be primitive, but it’s sure easier on tires.

#16

Scott, you are getting smarter by the minute. I’m impressed.

Steve, I laughed my ass off with your post.

FJ40, It has been my experience that most folks asking questions already have preconceived notions for what they want to hear and are not really interested in the answer to their question at all. In all sincerity, enjoy your build and I hope that you will help someone else with this question three years from now based on your personal experience. Good luck with your build.