KP parity

#1

a guy on the CR list is spurring a discussion on a BMWCCA CR class structure revamp, and in an offline conversation he asked me what amount of weight reduction would make a Spec e30 car more competitive in KP there. Any with experience against KP cars that can comment?
cheers,
bruce

#2

I would say 200 lbs at first go (are tires free or do we have to run toyos?), but honestly what is the point? Are there really a bunch of you who would race BMWCCA but are holding out because we aren’t competitive in KP, I just don’t see it. Even if there was a spec E30 class how many would got to BMWCCA events? I mean its nice to have options but we can already run with BMWCCA if we want. And what happens when I show up in my spec car and beat all the KP guys, they are going to cry foul, that 200lbs is too much or whatever.

#3

I agree with your "what’s the point" comments, this is just an intellectual exercise.

#4

We all know the the 325i falls under the ITS heading at 2750# in SCCA. That particular setup, with the right springs/shocks/sways/4.27 diff/ and 170(legal)hp motor won the KP national championship last year. If you want to run the Spec E30 as the rules are written I would think 100# would be sufficient we you able to run DOT race tires. You will still be hampered by diff ratio and lack of chip but the car should be competitive. Chuck

#5

We all know the the 325i falls under the ITS heading at 2750# in SCCA. That particular setup, with the right springs/shocks/sways/4.27 diff/ and 170(legal)hp motor won the KP national championship last year. If you want to run the Spec E30 as the rules are written I would think 100# would be sufficient we you able to run DOT race tires. You will still be hampered by diff ratio and lack of chip but the car should be competitive. Chuck

#6

Resistance is Futile. They should convert and run with us.

#7

cwbaader wrote:

That proves absolutely nothing about competitiveness, zero. Maybe it was the only KP car running. Maybe the other KP cars were not well prepared or well driven or only did 2 events.

I don’t know, I didn’t look at any of those results and I really have no recollection of KP cars specifically at any event I worked.

It’s a very similar argument to the JP vs ITS E36 that has gone on for years. The plain and simple bottom line is that a well built and driven KP E30 is going to beat a well built and driven SpecE30 car or ITS car, KP cars are allowed more prep.

Whether or not people take advantage of that is another story. Personally, I would build the car for where you want to run and if you can race it elsewhere that fits into your schedule than good for you. Expecting any series to change rules to make a car built for another series more competitive is prety silly. No other series does this for BMW cars so why on earth should BMW CCA do it for other series cars?

I will not be part of the rules process after this year so this may all change. If so, great, if not, no big surprise. I also agree that I think it’s very unlikely that all of the sudden BMW CR’s will be populated with all these cross over cars simply because the rules make them more competitive. It hasn’t happened with all the ITS/ITR E36’s even though that was one of their many arguments.

Oh, and it’s much better to beat someone in an "underprepared" car vs equal. ; )

#8

Jack, you should know that Billy Jack Etheridge won KP last year with KP being the largest class at most SE races. The car tested at 1:42 at Road Atlanta just after the build. Now, please explain to me how you are going the get a Spec E30 to run 4 seconds faster? To rethink my suggestion, I would say DOT slicks and 200# would be a more competitive setup. Chuck

#9

cwbaader wrote:

Hey Chuck,

I don’t really pay any attention to points so I didn’t know that. I only worked the one SE race at RA and that’s the only time I’ve been there.

As for the laptime at RA, I don’t know RA so I don’t know what laptimes should be. But honestly, that really has nothing to do with it, I was only pointing out that there are many data points which show other information. And honestly, the national championship in CR does not necessarily prove anything, there are many, many variables here. Tht’s not to say that he didn’t earn it, just that I would not compare its granduer to the championship in some other series personally.

Either way my point is that there is still no reason to think that any series should make changes for cars built specifically to another series. Should SpecE30 make special allowances for KP cars that have cams and brakes? Of course not!

If allowances ever do happen fine, but I don’t see droves of people just waiting to participate because of it. Simon is right on about the comparison of ITS E36’s in JP. I just don’t understand the mindset where one series should make allowances for another series cars, it’s ridiculous.