IE HD Rocker Arms - Legal?

#1

I searched the forums but nothing came up; would there be any legalities issues if one were to use these rocker arms instead of stock?

http://store.nexternal.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?CS=ireland&StoreType=BtoC&Count1=48916041&Count2=966056466&CategoryID=3&Target=products.asp

AFAIK there are no performance gain; only security.

Any comments?

Cheers!

#2

The link you provided only routes to the home page of the IE online store, so it’s not clear which part you’re considering, however, the link below is probably of interest to you.

http://spece30.com/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,86/func,view/id,31950/catid,37/#32196

As you can see, we had debated allowing some upgraded rockers and ultimately, after much feedback from the racer community, determined that only OEM rockers would be allowed.

#3

Your link doesn’t point to a specific product, but there was a lengthy thread here…

http://spece30.com/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,86/func,view/id,32611/catid,16/limit,10/limitstart,0/

…that might help you decide. If you search the forums (i.e. NOT the search box in the upper right of the page, but the one that says “Search Forum” ) for “rocker,” plenty of reading material will show up.

Steve D.

#4

Reading the thread; the IE rocker arms are not the billet versions.
http://store.nexternal.com/shared/StoreFront/product_detail.asp?RowID=753&CS=ireland&All= (hopefully that will work). Currently reading both posts and it seems that these are legal due to equal design to OEM.

#5

The link took me to “Rocker Arm M20 -Heavy Duty Race.”

Looking at that picture, are you saying the IE piece is the “exact same shape and size” as the stock rocker arm shown? :blink: :huh:

Steve D.

#6

Well it seems that the rules posted now do not state anything regarding the rocker arms. The post that you posted (
http://spece30.com/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,86/func,view/id,32611/catid,16/limit,10/limitstart,0/) stated these two rules:

9.3.1.2.6. Rocker arms may be replaced and must be of the exact same shape and size of
the factory piece.

3.5. “Replaced” means that the item may be replaced with items meeting or exceeding OEM
specifications.

So then this calls into another question; the rules no longer state anything regarding the rocker arms; cars that were built under ‘old’ rules are able to run with the 9.3.1.2.6 and 3.5 ruling?

Steve D, if you are referring to the difference in the opening (don’t know the correct term of what one would call the key hole design) then no it is not exact; but the above rules allow the use of ‘exceeding’.

These rocker arms do not offer any performance gain AFAIK.

#7

I think the key is the link in Chuck’s post. It contains the phrase OEM equivalent. The IE rocker arms don’t seem OEM equivalent to me, they seem stronger.

#8

bavarian3 wrote:

[quote]Steve D, if you are referring to the difference in the opening (don’t know the correct term of what one would call the key hole design) then no it is not exact; but the above rules allow the use of ‘exceeding’.

These rocker arms do not offer any performance gain AFAIK.[/quote]

If the rules don’t say you can, you can’t. So the only legal rockers are the factory pieces. Don’t confuse “increase performance” with “go faster” in all cases. If the IE rockers were designed with less opening (more metal) for durability, I would argue that is increased performance.

Besides, the specific “exact shape and size” in the now-superseded rule trumps the more general “meet or exceed” language in the definition of “replaced.”

Steve D.

#9

I’m in process of selling the billet rocker arms that I bought for my new engine. Since I fall into the camp of “fix it once”.

I haven’t said much on this, but I find it funny that everyone seems to think this isn’t an issue yet I’ve seen at least a handful of people break these. And most people (some that were saying this isn’t an issue) carrying rocker arms in their box of spare parts.

So for anyone that thinks these don’t break and that it isn’t an issue go search on “rocker arm” on any E30 message board and spend the rest of your month reading posts. Where there is smoke there is fire. Yeah I know, turbo motors, hot cams, no rev limit, etc. They still break.

Given my luck if anyone is going to bust one of these its going to be me. I’ve considered buying the Metric Mechanic OEM shotpeened / hand selected ones, but spending $700+ on what is effectively the same sh!tty part is too much no matter how hand inspected, etc. it is.

I’ll play along and pretend that this isn’t going to happen, and its just a matter of having the valves out of adjustment. I’m tired of working on this car and spending money replacing cr@p with the same cr@p. When one of these break I’ll probably light this POS on fire and go race Spec Ford. Where at least it will be race parts breaking at that point.

In the meantime we can keep making rules to keep this ‘budget’. Breaking a rocker, losing the race, the weekend and/or doing some hack a$$ repair in the paddock may seem budget or fun to some, but it isn’t to me.

You know what keeps a series budget. Rules stability.

#10

Racer X has spoken. /thread

#11

Active racers feel free to comment…

#12

Have you actually “raced” an entire race yet?

#13

4th place in the points and beat you in the Enduro series too. You want the link to the points?

#14

Good work, that just means you beat me in all of the races…that I didn’t show up to.

#15

BAM!!! There it is. You two should really settle this on the track. I wanna be there to see it (in my mirrors, of course). CMP in 2 weeks? I can get mine back together…

Oh yeah…on rocker arms. I’d be OK with sourcing 1 or 2 manufacturers for an upgrade. I’ve been lucky not to break one so far, but am building a new head right now and would like to have another option after seeing many others broken at the track.

#16

Maybe allowing rocker arms that created the same valve movement characteristics as OEM, but were stronger would be in keeping with the class’s philosophy.

We reinforce our sway bar tabs because the OEM design isn’t strong enough for racing.

It’s common to weld reinforcement bits on the subframe (or something like that) because it wasn’t designed for the rigors of racing.

We often reinforce the rear shock towers because they aren’t up to the rigors of racing.

What makes rocker arms different?

#17

some rockers may have broken - but were they 20 yo originals?
I haven’t heard of any data on how many new FEBI OEM replacements are breaking in Spec E30 races?
The rules have been stable - but we determined that people were misinterpreting “exact same size and shape”, (or, at least that is the impression conveyed by posts) hence the update to make the default be OEM replacements only.
bruce

IndyJim wrote:

[quote]I’m in process of selling the billet rocker arms that I bought for my new engine. Since I fall into the camp of “fix it once”.

I haven’t said much on this, but I find it funny that everyone seems to think this isn’t an issue yet I’ve seen at least a handful of people break these. And most people (some that were saying this isn’t an issue) carrying rocker arms in their box of spare parts.

So for anyone that thinks these don’t break and that it isn’t an issue go search on “rocker arm” on any E30 message board and spend the rest of your month reading posts. Where there is smoke there is fire. Yeah I know, turbo motors, hot cams, no rev limit, etc. They still break.

Given my luck if anyone is going to bust one of these its going to be me. I’ve considered buying the Metric Mechanic OEM shotpeened / hand selected ones, but spending $700+ on what is effectively the same sh!tty part is too much no matter how hand inspected, etc. it is.

I’ll play along and pretend that this isn’t going to happen, and its just a matter of having the valves out of adjustment. I’m tired of working on this car and spending money replacing cr@p with the same cr@p. When one of these break I’ll probably light this POS on fire and go race Spec Ford. Where at least it will be race parts breaking at that point.

In the meantime we can keep making rules to keep this ‘budget’. Breaking a rocker, losing the race, the weekend and/or doing some hack a$$ repair in the paddock may seem budget or fun to some, but it isn’t to me.

You know what keeps a series budget. Rules stability.[/quote]

#18

cars built to old rules have to be updated to the latest rules - as is the case in most series.

the latest rules are silent on rocker arms, so by default only OEM replacements are allowed.
bruce

bavarian3 wrote:

[quote]Well it seems that the rules posted now do not state anything regarding the rocker arms. The post that you posted (
http://spece30.com/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,86/func,view/id,32611/catid,16/limit,10/limitstart,0/) stated these two rules:

9.3.1.2.6. Rocker arms may be replaced and must be of the exact same shape and size of
the factory piece.

3.5. “Replaced” means that the item may be replaced with items meeting or exceeding OEM
specifications.

So then this calls into another question; the rules no longer state anything regarding the rocker arms; cars that were built under ‘old’ rules are able to run with the 9.3.1.2.6 and 3.5 ruling?

Steve D, if you are referring to the difference in the opening (don’t know the correct term of what one would call the key hole design) then no it is not exact; but the above rules allow the use of ‘exceeding’.

These rocker arms do not offer any performance gain AFAIK.[/quote]

#19

leggwork wrote:

[quote]some rockers may have broken - but were they 20 yo originals?
I haven’t heard of any data on how many new FEBI OEM replacements are breaking in Spec E30 races?
The rules have been stable - but we determined that people were misinterpreting “exact same size and shape”, hence the update to make the default be OEM replacements only.
bruce[/quote]

I don’t pretend to have done an exhaustive “ranger-esque” study on BMW rocker arm designs. I can simply say that off the top of my head Al (roebling?) has broken one, Chi (vir?) has broken one, and some other dude at CMP bought one off me (I’m assuming he was replacing one not using it as a keychain).

In terms of stability, I specifically asked the question before I spent the money and was told it wasn’t considered a performance advantage and that there was no problem. So there is your stability.

I honestly don’t care, they’re removed from the car. If I were truly racer X they’d either a) still be in there or b) I’d spend the $70 per on the Metric versions or c)I’d invent something that looked like spec out of titanium.

This was simply to point out that the OEM design is sh!tty and these break despite what people say. When I break mine I’ll do something else. I don’t know why I bothered to swap them out since my valve cover will never come off the car and something tells me the magic dyno isn’t going to notice them either.

#20

our understanding is that at some point in time BMW changed the design so original rockers could be the inferior design as well as being old and fatigued.
bruce