Camber is dependent on the stiffness of the tire. The stiffer the tire, the less camber. So, if anyone has actually run the new tire, how do tire temps compare with the old tire across the face of the tire? CB
I know how to liven this place up . .
mcmmotorsports
#23
Not for nothing, but has anyone ever done a “correct” tire temp reading to see if more negative camber is really even needed? You can lay the tire in all you want but if tire temps don’t reflect the need for a change, what we have now should work fine. Again, only correctly performed tire temps are the only way to know.
Fred42
#25
I bought a probe thermometer last summer and the temps were surprisingly even across the tires (I’ve got -3.4 degrees in front and -2.4 in back as I recall). I’ve got the numbers written down somewhere - I’ll try to find them.
Patton
#26
Ditto Fred’s results.
Chuck Taylor and I did similar test back in 2008? at a BMWCCA DE event.
We put the test equipment away and decided that we really needed to focus on learning how to drive. Since that time Chuck’s results have improved, mine not so much. Fred has upped his game, too. Steve Lako, Julio Palacio, others have come in and improved and it wasn’t a silver bullet of set-up as much as it was better skills.
Moral of the story: learn to drive.
dougsauce
#27
Back to j Cates comments on adjustable spring pad availability:
Any currently out there ? Was this a "allow it and someone will start offering them " kind of rule change ?
Just curious. doug s
Ranger
#29
Maybe the regional directors can help us understand the thinking behind the rule change?
Subject change. So here’s what I got out of my rule change requests:
Significant
- Allow mod of oil pressure relieve valves. Approved
- Allow Ireland HD rockers. Approved.
- Allow metal motor mounts. Approved. I should have asked for metal tranny mounts too, but I was trying to hustle and didn’t think that one thru.
Moderately significant:
- Allow reinforcement of the skid plate. Approved. The problem was that once you cut holes in it so air can flow thru, it’s too wimpy to do it’s job unless you make it out of 1/4" steel.
Not very significant:
- Put on paper the “unwritten” battery hold down rule. Approved.
- Allow us to cut our turn signal and wiper stalks. Approved.
- Remove the “pairs only” from the bumper swap rule. So you could be able to swap front or rear, but not be forced to do both. This request was not approved.
There were also some old rules that didn’t make sense or some clumsy wording of rules that I was just trying to help clean up. 3 rules here, all approved.
Certainly there were other folks targeting the same rules in their rule change requests so credit goes to them too.
Foglght
#30
Did anybody come up with a spec on how to check the compliance of cars that have had parts/frames bent?
Seems like that would have been disucssed before changing the rule…
Really need to know what to do here. I don’t want to drop $300-400 to get the frame adjusted to get at least 3.5 degress. Every 1/2 degree I moved it last year made a decent difference until I hit the inside of the tower. Most I could get was 3.1 and that was rubbing the tower. Drove it like that anyway.
Not sure why this has to be such a pain in the arse. Everyone else around me has all the camber in the world.
Z3SpdDmn
#31
I’ve run the tire once. Regrettably, I did not get tire temps. The old RA-1 was happy at -3.5 in the front.
It is possible that the new tire may not require as much camber. My advice to folks would be to run what you got at first and check your tire temps. Then see if you need to start bending stuff… Unless someone is able to prove otherwise. The tire may be stiffer, but the added grip may make it roll more, possibly requiring more negative camber. Maybe they’ll even out. We don’t really know yet.
dgorman
#32
I’ve run the tire once. Regrettably, I did not get tire temps. The old RA-1 was happy at -3.5 in the front.
It is possible that the new tire may not require as much camber. My advice to folks would be to run what you got at first and check your tire temps. Then see if you need to start bending stuff… Unless someone is able to prove otherwise. The tire may be stiffer, but the added grip may make it roll more, possibly requiring more negative camber. Maybe they’ll even out. We don’t really know yet.[/quote]
Exactly. There is no data yet other than some light testing. Until there is more data, experiment and keep data.
Steve_D
#33
Interesting read…
Rennlist thread
The last page picks up some discussion about tread splices coming apart.
dgorman
#34
Interesting read…
Rennlist thread
The last page picks up some discussion about tread splices coming apart.
TireRack article about tread splices[/quote]
Wow.
So my question would be, how did the testing before this was released to the public not vett these issues? My guess is that people will stay on RA1s until we can understand these tires. Hopefully some one doesn’t get hurt with the tread separating.
I have to say I have not been impressed with Toyo between the R888 with spec boxster, R888 in spece30 and the the compound change in RA1 but trying to pass it off as the same as before only to come out that that its not (because of Japan environmental laws).
We ran the BFG r1 in the 25 hour last year and some various testing days. It is a fantastic tire. I’m sure lots of people have opinions and not to revive an already hot debate, I believe NASA should seriously not always give Toyo the contract. Make them work for it, have the manufacturers battle to get their tires in contract… My $0.02
King_Tut
#35
It seems like the SpecE30 powers that be are thinking the same thing. I was under the impression we would have to run the RR after the first couple events next year, but the rules say differently:
[quote]9.3.9.1. The Toyo RR or RA-1, size 205/50/15 must be used in qualifying and competition. Any
tire brand/size may be used in practice or other non-competition sessions[/quote]
I guess I will hold off buying my new tires for 2013 until this is decided.
juliancates
#36
Seems to me it was worded this way so that the RA-1 could be used as a rain tire. I suppose you could also run the RA-1 as a dry tire, but with reports of the RR’s being faster, why would you?
We discussed the splices on an e-mail list with a long-time racer and mentor, and his take was this:
I’m not surprised by the “mount DoT code to the left” fix.
Tire tread is wrapped around the carcass and it has a seem. All tires have this seem. I’ve seen it appear on a variety of tires (goodyear, Hoosier, General, Yoko, Cooper, slicks or DoT’s) over the years, mostly when we ran them from new the “wrong” way. If run the correct direction the first time out they could then be run either way and the seem never appeared. I’ve never had tread peal off from the seem appearing. Not a rennlist member, can’t see the photos.
Again, in my experience, even if the tire is mounted correctly, if we unknowingly installed it in the wrong place with the wrong rotation the seem would show up. By flipping the tire around to roll the correct direction the seem would disappear and then we could run it either direction.
Foglght
#37
Interesting read…
Rennlist thread
The last page picks up some discussion about tread splices coming apart.
TireRack article about tread splices[/quote]
Wow.
So my question would be, how did the testing before this was released to the public not vett these issues? My guess is that people will stay on RA1s until we can understand these tires. Hopefully some one doesn’t get hurt with the tread separating.
I have to say I have not been impressed with Toyo between the R888 with spec boxster, R888 in spece30 and the the compound change in RA1 but trying to pass it off as the same as before only to come out that that its not (because of Japan environmental laws).
We ran the BFG r1 in the 25 hour last year and some various testing days. It is a fantastic tire. I’m sure lots of people have opinions and not to revive an already hot debate, I believe NASA should seriously not always give Toyo the contract. Make them work for it, have the manufacturers battle to get their tires in contract… My $0.02[/quote]
Don’t even bother, seriously. You won’t get anywhere and will waste a bunch of time typing. There will not be a switch to any other tire. Has nothing to do with the wishes of the racers and has more to do with “corporate NASA” as laughable as that sounds.
dgorman
#38
Seems to me it was worded this way so that the RA-1 could be used as a rain tire. I suppose you could also run the RA-1 as a dry tire, but with reports of the RR’s being faster, why would you?
We discussed the splices on an e-mail list with a long-time racer and mentor, and his take was this:
I’m not surprised by the “mount DoT code to the left” fix.
Tire tread is wrapped around the carcass and it has a seem. All tires have this seem. I’ve seen it appear on a variety of tires (goodyear, Hoosier, General, Yoko, Cooper, slicks or DoT’s) over the years, mostly when we ran them from new the “wrong” way. If run the correct direction the first time out they could then be run either way and the seem never appeared. I’ve never had tread peal off from the seem appearing. Not a rennlist member, can’t see the photos.
Again, in my experience, even if the tire is mounted correctly, if we unknowingly installed it in the wrong place with the wrong rotation the seem would show up. By flipping the tire around to roll the correct direction the seem would disappear and then we could run it either direction.
RA1’s can be used as Rain or Dry tires. Let’s see how the RR’s go, perhaps it was a bad batch, pressures or whatever… 
FARTBREF
#39
Just my opinion but the toyo-nasa marriage sucks for us. I have not bought new tires in over 3 years, would rather race on Azenis like in chump…Will be happy to run mid pack without spending any $$ with Toyo…sorry Sasco, Phil’s at least yall get my mount business.
Al