Fuel Tank Cleaning


#1

Drained and removed the fuel tank this afternoon. Yuck! I think I know why it hardly ran. It’s an '86 eta chassis. Radiatorconnection’s site is down so I’ll have to give them a call in the a.m.

The tank appears to be fine externally (I am tired and it was getting dark though). I guess my course of action is one of economics. If I can clean/get the tank cleaned for less coin than a replacement, I’ll go that route.

My initial plan for cleaning is to see if one of the local radiator shops can tank it. Plan B would be some sort of DIY cleaning process.

Any one care to share their tank cleaning experience?

Thanks,

KB


#2

A twenty year old car with a steel gas tank can have a surprising amount of
rust in the tank. That rust can and will clog the pump inlet screens and
filter and cause the high pressure pump to have a short life. While a
new tank will certainly fix that, you can clean and seal the tank for a lot
less money.

My 87 325is suffered from this. The car ran fine on the street but the first
time I took it to the track for a test & tune it was as if the car had a soft
rev limiter that decreased by 500-700rpm per lap. Some particulate matter did
come out of the tank when I drained the gas, but with the in-tank pump out I
could see a layer of crud in the bottom of the tank that was about an 1/8"
deep. On the track that stuff got stirred up, clogged the inlet screens &
filter, and starved the engine. It also ate up the internals of the high
pressure pump. Rust is a fairly abrasive material.

The first attempt at a fix was to have the tank acid dipped and install new
pumps & filter. Either they didn’t leave the tank in long enough or the acid
was a bit depleted, but the result was less than satisfactory as the next time
I had the car on the track the high pressure pump started buzzing and I ran
into the same starvation issue.

After taking the tank out again and sloshing about a gallon of fuel around I
got loads of rust out of the tank. The new filter was heavily loaded and the
inlet screen of the high pressure pump was also loaded up. And the cross-over
pipe was completely plugged. This time I was determined to get all of the rust
out and follow that up with sealant to lock down anything that was left and
prevent further rusting. I used a gas tank sealer kit from Eastwood, but went
a bit further than they suggest.

The tank, having been recently acid dipped had no varnish in it. So a simple
wash with a strong TSP solution removed the remaining organics. I made up a
simple plug for the hole where the in-tank pump mounts that could easily be
removed. Think of a round disk of plywood with a bar on the bottom and a couple
of screws to snug the bar up. Drop that into the opening, rotate slightly to
engage the lock ears on the tank and tighten the screws. The remaining
openings were closed up with pieces of a freezer bag held in place with rubber
bands.

About a gallon of diluted acid in the tank was about right. That was enough to
slosh around well but not so much as too make the tank to heavy. I used an acid
mix sold for cleaning masonry that’s composed of Hydrochloric and Phosphoric
acids at about double the normal dilution. Over the course of a couple of
hours I’d slosh and flip tank every fifteen minutes to wet all parts of the
tank with the solution. At the end of a couple of hours I drained the tank and
disposed of the pretty well spent acid by reacting it with limestone gravel.

To flush the tank I made up a right-angle spray nozzle with pluming fittings
and a 1/4" hose barb. That allowed the nozzle to be inserted into the tank and
a high velocity stream sprayed into all corners. This was done with the tank
at about a 30deg angle (drain plug hole down) and the fluid collected into a
bucket. When the water ran clean and no more loose junk came out I repeated
the acid treatment and flush. It took all of one Saturday and part of Sunday
to get the tank to the point that no more rust could be seen and nothing was
being flushed out of the tank.

The last steps were to use the acid etch from the Eastwood kit, flush with
acetone, and apply the sealer. Before putting the sealer in the tank I removed
the cross-over pipe and sealed those openings. And after the sealer had been
applied and before it had a chance to harden I blew out those openings and the
tubing that runs across the top of the tank with compressed air. After drying
for a couple of days the tank was reassembled and reinstalled in the car.

Once sealed the inside of the tank had a fairly uniform white coating. I did
see a few specks of matter that I wasn’t able to flush from the tank, but
those were well locked in place by the sealer.

Cleaning and sealing the tank is pretty labor intensive. But at a total cost
of less than $80 it is a lot cheaper than a new tank (~$400 for this car).


#3

I forget the place (its in Canada), you can buy an aftermarket tank for around $250 I think.

Search on new fuel tanks, I got the number off this site. Its in New Brunswick.

If you want another option vs. cleaning.


#4

Awesome right up Jim! The most cost effective replacement tank I’ve found is $265, so I guess I’ll be following in your footsteps.

Question: Was the amount of sealer with the kit (2 pints)enough, or did you need extra material? I suppose before I order I should decide if I need to order an extra pint or quart. Usually, my luck with application of predetermined quantities always falls short. :slight_smile:

My local radiator shop said they may could dip the tank for me. I’ll get it to them tomorrow to find out. If no go, I guess I’ll be doing all the cleaning myself. Everything looked to be dried out last night. There’s a lot of rust in there!


#5

So in thinking ahead to the next requirement after the tank issue is resolved, fuel pressure comes up.

My chassis has the 2 pump system. I haven’t looked at prices yet, but if I can convert my 2 pump system to a single pump system, all the better. Anybody converted the pumps on the old style tank?


#6

Hey Jim,

Will a '88 tank fit in a '86 car?


#7

Ok, I finally found the $175 radiators on ebay - theradiatorconnection. I’ll easily spend $80-$100 on just materials and service alone - not to mention my time and the mess. So, I’m down for a new radiator.

Ok, that being said, my current chassis is a '86 eta w/14.5 gallon tank. I’d like to upgrade to the 16.6 gallon '88 tank. Has any body done such a thing and what all additional parts did it entail?

Additionally, I really want to ditch the old dual series pump setup and go with a single pump system. Anybody been there, done that?

TIA

KB


#8

Jim, that was a great post. I’m going to put it on my website in the DIY’s section. With due credit of course.

rroadster. The Grassroots motorsports guys fought this battle with their E30 last year. They wrote a series of stories, one of which talked about buying the wrong fuel tank. I’ll look for the article tonight, but I’d give them a call and see what they learned from that.

I don’t recall ever reading a post here about someone trying to convert from old to new tanks. It just became legal this year.


#9

Thanks Ranger,

Is this the article you speak of?

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/1989-bmw-325is/fuel-tank-frenzy/

This says GRM tried to put a smaller tank in a later model car - with no success.

That makes me nervous about trying to fit the larger tank in my earlier car. Too bad - I was hoping for a 12 hr Enduro killa!

I still am going to persue a single high pressure pump in the tank and dump the external pump. The internal pump I removed was someone’s attempt to rig a non OEM pump in the tank. The pump leads came out of the pump while I was trying to wiggle the fat S.O.B. out of the tank hole.


#10

rrroadster wrote:

[quote]Thanks Ranger,

Is this the article you speak of?

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/1989-bmw-325is/fuel-tank-frenzy/

This says GRM tried to put a smaller tank in a later model car - with no success.

That makes me nervous about trying to fit the larger tank in my earlier car. Too bad - I was hoping for a 12 hr Enduro killa!

I still am going to persue a single high pressure pump in the tank and dump the external pump. The internal pump I removed was someone’s attempt to rig a non OEM pump in the tank. The pump leads came out of the pump while I was trying to wiggle the fat S.O.B. out of the tank hole.[/quote]

GRM’s situation apparently wasn’t exactly like yours, but they still might be able to offer some insights. They had a late model car and bought an early model tank. So you know that they held their single late model pump in their hand and looked hard at their early model tank and thought to themselves…“can we make this work, or do we need to send the early model tank back.”

And if they did some thinking along those lines, then they’re likely to have some insights into your situation which is pretty much the opposite. The guy to talk to might be Scott Lear.

That’s a little weak, but it’s not like you’re being inundated with other advice.


#11

Well I found a post in BimmerWerkz on the subject. Though it wasn’t too detailed the end result was no.

I guess it makes sense, trying to install a 16.6 gallon tank inplace of a 14.5 gallon tank is akin to shoving 10 lbs of $h!t in a 5 lb bag. :slight_smile:

I still want to ditch the dual low pressure/high pressure fuel pump arrangement though.

I’m looking for a Walbro or some such that I can stick in the tank to do it all. The combined costs of both BMW pumps is $300 - $400. Absurd.


#12

You did everyone a service with this. How 'bout posting a link? Now that gas tanks are free, other folks in the future with early model tanks full of rust were sure to be thinking along the same lines.


#13

What year car…89?


#14

Yes you can install the late model 63L tank in place of the early 55L tank. A slight bit of fuel and vent line re-routing is necessary as well as swapping out the fuel gage if you want it to be accurate. As far as mounting is concerned, both tanks are the same.

Some folks have had persistent problems with fuel starvation on the late model tank when the level drops below a half tank. The early model tank has a crossover tube between the tank sides. But the late model tank uses a siphon to move gas from the left to right sides. If the pump is weak, the filter is clogged, or something is wrong with the siphon, fuel starvation on a less than full tank will be an issue. I’m considering adding a transfer pump to the left side of the tank as a solution to this problem.


#15

I’ll save the bigger tank project for later. I gotta get this car done!

The factory repair manual calls for 3 bar pressure @ 875 cm^3/30 sec.

That converts to 43.5 psi and 105 LPH.

I can find Walbro in-line pumps at 144 LPH, and I think that would be an ok flow rate. But I want an in-tank unit.

There’s a lot of in-tank 255 LPH Walbro vendors “for E30’s”. I think 255 LPH is overkill, but it seems to be the only in-tank offering I can find. I got news for ya’, the GSS340 kits they’re all selling are just Mustang kits. Kinda’ like some of the supercharger stuff on my Miata - when in need try a Mustang part!

What’s too much flow gonna do to me? Heat up the fuel from the excessive circulation? Maybe make tired injectors work better?

So it looks like for ~$275 I can get a new tank and fuel pump and have no worries.


#16

Too much fuel flow is no big deal. The injectors won’t sense it because the FP regulator will let it by. Don’t go crazy tho on flow or you could overwhelm what the FP regulator can flow.

The OEM pump is capable of pretty high pressure, so don’t focus on 43psi. The spec FP # is probably in Bentley, but when I plugged my return line (an experiment last week) my fuel pressure gauge needle went 360deg. I figure the OEM pump is putting out 2 or 3X that 43psi.


#17

Ranger wrote:

Well yeah, when it’s got no where to flow to.

I think I read the flow rate spec wrong earlier. I think it should be 3 bar @ 2.1 LPM (43.5 psi @ 126 LPH)

I found some more info on Walbro pumps. There are links to graphs on the bottom of the page.

http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/html/fpspecs.html

I think the standard 190 lph has a more than adequate flow curve and it doesn’t draw too many amps.(144 LPH - 181 LPH from 12V - 13.5 V)

I’ll probably contact Walbro tomorrow for diameter and length. The GSA3315 is a Miata application. I’m thinking the diameter is small enough to work and hope the length is too. Also the filter bag at the pump intake is an “L” configuration like the OEM in-tank pump. Gotta sneak some Miata parts in there somehow! :slight_smile:


#18

You might not be looking at this right. The high pressure that I got when I plugged my return line wasn’t so much “ya well it had no place to go to”. It was more a test of pump supply pressure. Your posts don’t talk about supply pressure much. A 50psi pump probably is not going to do it…Not when the OEM pump provides significantly more pressure.

Check the Bentley for the FP test of our pumps and get one that can handle the spec liters/min AT THE SPEC PSI.

Later edit: Well shit. I just checked the Bentley the Spec pressure is only 3 bar. I’m hear to tell you tho that the fuel pump puts out a lot more pressure then that. Or at least mine does.

There’s no way a fuel pump that can do no more then 3bar is going to be able to provide 3 bar at the injectors thru 15’ of hose.


#19

Some of the late model 325’s came equipped with Bosch BFP019.

http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/downloads/BOSCH_Fuel_Pump_WEB.pdf

This confirms the 43.5 psi operating pressure but gives a flow rate of 120 LPH. There’s also some pretty good testing/analysis expalanation there also.

If you look the Walbro in-line pumps for the earlier year cars, they give a flow rate of 144 LPH at 12V. I think I’ve got myself pretty much sold on the Miata std 190 LPH Walbro.


#20

rrroadster,

I look froward to you detailing what you come up with.

here is a post where drumbeater was working on something similar. http://spece30.com/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,86/func,view/id,26776/catid,5/limit,10/limitstart,0/