Fontana

#1

What’s up with the Sunday DQ’s, Alan & Steve?

#2

You can relate, they made too much power.

#3

I can relate, except my last DQ was for being 4#'s light, never because of HP.

Where both DQ’s because of too much HP, over the max limit or because of not having enough “Penalty” weight?..

All the more reason why this HP rule needs to be modified…Not sure if you had been made aware that Walter freshened up a bottom end, new rings, no 20 over. sold to Dan Riley. Dan put a fresh head on & it dynoed at 162. This example was meant to mimick a junkyard motor refresh…Nothing special.

My vote, up the HP limit to a reasonable & realistic number. Those with more have to add weight…Seems pretty simple.Nobody gets excluded…

#4

I say you can relate because im pretty sure your 170hp dyno is what sprung this sudden rule change in the middle of last season. (and not by me.)

#5

170 in July but not anymore…:unsure:

#6

Were finding that a certain combination of new and old parts with the right rings and oil make power above 160. Im going to do a tear down on the motor to see whats inside. The other car had a chip in it that the owner didnt know about. Thats easy to miss. How many people remove and inspect their chip to see if its legal? So ill be doing an inspection on everyone’s ECU at the next event. Followed by sealing up the ECU.

Stuff happens…

#7

Again,
All the more reason to revisit this rules change & modify.
“that a certain combination of new and old parts with the right rings and oil make power above 160”. Lets assume that whatever that combination is & racer X isn’t seeking a performance advantage, just puts in a refreshed motor, nothing special, no tricks & now gets hit with at least 100-120# weight penalty. :evil:

#8

Interesting, I have a ringed bottom end. Full built head and a brand new air flow meter and I made 152hp. Legally I don’t know how I could get it to 160?

#9

First of all, you didn’t use the special NORCAL rings. Secondly, if your brand new air flow meter was anything like mine, it came out of the box, direct from bosche & measured over 17AFR…Did you happen to dyno tune your engine?
You might check to see where the person who dyno’d at 165 last week got his rings…Just saying, nice to see that guys down South are tying to keep even in the HP wars.:laugh:
[ul]

#10

It seems a lot of people bought built cars with cheater parts in them.

#11

That’s kind of a random statement…How many times have we heard this story “I purchased this car & had no idea that I had a chipped ecu”? If you buy a used car, make sure you check your ecu as some of those tuner kids on there street cars put in chips…

#12

thats impossible!!! this is supposed to be fun:woohoo: [quote=“priapism” post=76279]It seems a lot of people bought built cars with cheater parts in them.[/quote]

#13

Steve, what is the point of this thread? I am sure you already knew what happened at Fontana before you posted. Was it an “I told you so” thread? A “see they cheat in SoCal” thread? Or was it a “we need to change the rules” thread? You still claim your 170hp motor was legal. Was it ever torn down by officials? Did you personally see what was put in the motor or see how it was put together? Sorry, I will not take your word for it. I have seen your old car :ohmy: Even if the hp limit is low, build a motor to that hp limit. It keeps cost down and the playing field level. Put it on the dyno before you race it. That is where I made a mistake. If the car was put on a dyno before I raced it I would not have any problem.

Allan

#14

The Point of my thread…?
Allen, I didn’t know anything about the DQ’s other than seeing on Mylaps, that is why I asked. All kidding aside,I think the new HP rule needs to be reviewed & modified some. Yes, 170hp might be a bit much but the motor was built by one of Norcal Spec e30 founding shops & I know & trust Walter well enough to know that he wouldn’t compromise his integrity to build an “illegal” uber engine as one of our class sponsors. Did I see what was put in the motor,NO. Did I see how it was put together, NO. That is where trust comes in & I trust Walter. Besides, I live 300 miles away. That said, the build order came from me & that was build me a legal motor that can win the Nationals. As for the motor being torn down by officials, NO…I offered for Nasa to do so but was declined on more than one occasion. You will have to ask them why they declined. I never got a straight answer, just like when I asked for “allowable” means to DETUNE…Nothing.

What bothers me is the way they went about the rules change & settled on an HP # that the person suggesting the HP rules change actually had (Conflict of interest)…I already gave you the Dan Riley Story, Sean mentions certain combinations of parts are created higher hp #'s. The bigger issue I see is that mid pack guys do a light refresh maybe in hopes of getting a bit further up the grid & then get popped with 100-140# weight penalty & actually give up more than they gained. Are they going to get discouraged & potentially leave the series?

Lastly, the dig about the HP war continues…Just a razz…but also to point out that it is not just NorCal guys that have 160+motors.

#15

well i will pay for the dyno for my car before this weekend and make sure that my car hasn’t mysteriously gained 6 or 7 ponies.

it really sucks that you got penalized.

it just goes to show all of us that we need to get our cars checked.

i look forward to a more level playing field and hope we can keep the fields growing.

#16

You asked, so I will tell you. I bought a car from a racer that I know & trusted well enough that I thought he wouldn’t compromise his integrity (sound familiar) by selling me a car with a chip in it; but it did. I specifically asked what was done to the car and he told me. NOTHING mentioned about a chip. However, he had a shop do all the I suspect that the car was prep’d for enduro’s and they simply forgot about it. In either case, the car was slow in all the SE30 races that it was entered in and I would say that anyone who watched it on track would say it was the driver, not the car. That being said, when it was found out, not one person had to tell me what to do or ask me. I immediately handed the trophy to the next guy and when I found out what the penalty was, I voluntarily DQ’d myself for the weekend…which was above and beyond what NASA’s penalty was. Allan did the same exact thing. Bottom line, I didn’t check the ECU which was my responsibility. I did so because I believe that character is not what you do in the face of a challenge, it’s what you do when you believe nobody is looking.

For the record, I trusted the prior owner. I approached him and he swears he didn’t know anything about the chip and I believe him. The engine builder says he dyno’d the car before Fontana and it made 155 hp. Like you, I did not see what went into the motor, watch it get assembled or know what oil was in the car when it was run on the dyno. But I do know the same builder put Allan’s engine together, it was torn down and proven to be a legal build. Furthermore, any attack on Hauser is something I take personal offense to. He is NOT that guy and I know he is one of the most capable drivers in SE30, nationwide. I trust his word and would back him blindly. That being said, I would hope for the same, but know that is a choice each man makes.

Not that I am trying to bash on you, but you stated that NASA wouldn’t tell you how to detune your engine and sounded upset by that. The problem I have with the statement is that they didn’t tell you how to build it either, but somehow you found a way to have a kick ass engine. I know you’re a bright guy Steve, and a very talented driver, however on this one you are asking for them to tell you what you can get away with rather than how to accomplish something. I am sure you know you could put the stock exhaust back on, change the AFM a click or two, use thicker oil, etc. You don’t need them to tell you that stuff, nor does Walter. I understand Allan’s post and see from where his angst toward this comes. But at the end of the day, I believe he may share your opinion and would like to simplify the rules, too.

I guess I could have just written, I was under weight for my engine hp, but we found out that the car I bought had a chip in it. That’s what happened. But somehow that just seemed to boring.