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Torque comparison…
3000 rpm Jon has 135
3000 rpm I have 125
3500 rpm Jon has 135
3500 rpm I have 125
4000 rpm Jon has 155
4000 rpm I have 135
4500 rpm Jon has 160
4500 rpm I have 135
5000 rpm Jon has 155
5000 rpm I have 120 (big dip here)
5500 rpm Jon has 150
5500 rpm I have 145
6000 rpm Jon has 145
6000 rpm I have 135
Does anyone have advice on how to fix the big dip from 4500 to 5200?
Carter
Thanks Bruce.
I was told by BMW garage owner and Spec E30 car builder Dave Palister that the big chain auto parts stores have good rebuilt AFMs. He said that he’s had good luck with them on street cars and that they cost about $100.00 less than the BMW dealer’s rebuilt AFM.
Carter
The engine is rated at 168HP at the fly. 160 at the wheels results in approximately 5% parasitic loss. You don’t need to ask Mr. Wizard if those numbers are funny. Most street E30 guys are chipped and tweaked, they don’t get 160hp. Maybe there is an issue with the dyno?
Proeagles wrote:
According to Carter’s post numbers are for torque [lbs.-ft] NOT horsepower [hp]
"i" models are rated at 164 lbs-ft at 4300 RPM, however issue of measuring equipment (dyno) can still come to play. I think we are all aware that two most popular dyno makers don’t produce same test results for the same car…and I don’t know what bmw used to publish official ratings…
Guys take a look at the rules below. There are plenty of opportunities to make more power here. As this series develops the cars are going to get faster. The days of running the high mile and/or junkyard motors and expecting to win are probably coming to an end. This is a normal process, as it gets more competitive everyone is going to try and find ways to gain an advantage. I hate to make the comparison but look at what happened with SM. "An outsiders view"
9.3. Modifications
9.3.1. Engine
9.3.1.1. Induction System
9.3.1.1.1. Air filter elements may (3.1) be replaced (3.5).
9.3.1.1.2. Stock (3.3) air intake and air box assemblies may (3.1) be replaced (3.5) with aftermarket filter that attaches directly to the airflow sensor housing.
9.3.1.1.3. Heat shielding is permitted around the air intake/air filter assembly.
9.3.1.2. Component Modification
9.3.1.2.1. Machining for balancing purposes only is allowed.
9.3.1.2.2. All pistons, including aftermarket replacements, shall (3.1) be factory replacement spec and match factory dome, dish, valve relief depth, ring groove placement, weight and wrist pin height; compression shall (3.1) meet factory replacement specifications. The maximum allowable overbore is limited to the largest available factory replacement piston, not to exceed .020 inch.
9.3.1.2.3. Rings may (3.1) be replaced (3.5).
9.3.1.2.4. Bearings may (3.1) be replaced (3.5).
9.3.1.2.5. Valve guides may (3.1) be replaced (3.5).
9.3.1.2.6. Rocker arms may be replaced (3.5).
SpecE30 Regulations
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9.3.1.2.7. No engine component may be modified (3.6) in any manner not specifically permitted or authorized by the Factory Service Manual or Factory Technical Bulletins.
9.3.1.2.8. Overhaul procedures which in any way may increase performance beyond factory specifications that are not specifically authorized by these regulations are prohibited, (e.g. porting/polishing, etc).
9.3.1.3. Fuel System
9.3.1.3.1. Fuel filters may (3.1) be substituted (3.4).
9.3.1.3.2. Any fuel pump may (3.1) be fitted.
9.3.1.3.3. A fuel pump may not (3.1) be located in the driver/passenger compartment.
9.3.1.3.4. An adjustable fuel pressure regulator may (3.1) be installed.
9.3.1.3.5. Fuel lines may (3.1) be replaced (3.5).
9.3.1.3.6. Fuel lines shall not (3.1) exceed three-eights of one inch inside diameter.
9.3.1.3.7. Fuel lines that pass through the driver/passenger compartment shall (3.1) be metal or metal braided and securely fastened.
9.3.1.4. Camshaft and Valve Gear
9.3.1.4.1. All valve sizes, seat dimensions and angles, etc., shall (3.1) conform to factory specifications.
9.3.1.4.2. All cam dimensions, lift, duration, etc., shall (3.1) conform to factory specifications.
9.3.1.5. Block
9.3.1.5.1. Compression ratio may be changed only within the tolerances affected by resurfacing for trueness and within factory tolerances or as allowed by these regulations.
9.3.1.6. Oiling System
9.3.1.6.1. Engine oil may (3.1) be substituted (3.4).
9.3.1.6.2. Engine oil filter may (3.1) be substituted (3.4).
9.3.1.6.3. A pressure accumulator/"Accusump" is permitted, and the location of the accumulator within the bodywork is unrestricted, but it shall (3.1) be securely mounted.
9.3.1.6.4. Oil lines that pass through the driver/passenger compartment shall (3.1) be metal or metal braided and securely fastened.
9.3.1.6.5. Oil pans, pan baffles, scrapers, windage trays, and oil pickups are unrestricted.
9.3.1.6.5.1. Dry sump systems are prohibited.
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9.3.1.6.6. Oil coolers may (3.1) be added or replaced (3.5), and their location within the bodywork is unrestricted so long as they are not mounted within the driver/passenger compartment.
9.3.1.6.7. Oil lines may (3.1) be replaced (3.5).
9.3.1.7. Engine Management System
9.3.1.7.1. The engine management computer or ECU may not (3.1) be altered.
9.3.1.7.1.1. For engine swap cars, ECU shall (3.1) match the engine.
9.3.1.8. Other Engine Related Items
9.3.1.8.1. Alternate, non-solid, motor mounts, providing the same height as original (3.3), are permitted.
9.3.1.8.2. Engine belts may (3.1) be substituted (3.4).
9.3.1.8.3. Hardware items (bolts, nuts, etc.) may (3.1) be replaced (3.5) with similar items performing the same fastening function.
9.3.1.8.4. Head gasket(s) may (3.1) be replaced (3.5) with any gasket(s) having the same or greater compression thickness as stock (3.3).
9.3.1.8.5. Other engine gaskets are unrestricted.
9.3.1.8.6. The application or use of any painting, coating, plating, or impregnating substance (i.e. anti-friction, thermal barrier, oil shedding coatings, chrome, anodizing, etc.) to any internal engine surface, including intake manifolds, is prohibited.
9.3.1.8.7. Cruise control mechanism may (3.1) be modified (3.6) or removed.
9.3.1.8.8. Battery mount may be replaced (3.5).
9.3.2. Engine Swapping
9.3.2.1. Cars that do not have an original (3.3) type engine, (e.g. the engine was not available in the model, chassis and year of the car), shall (3.1) be classed based upon the vehicle for which the engine was original (3.3).
9.3.2.2. The car shall (3.1) meet the weight minimum of the chassis, model and year for which the engine was originally available in the chassis of a US model, (e.g. it will assume the characteristics of the donor car).
9.3.2.2.1. Location and maximum ballast weight allowed is specified in 9.3.13.
9.3.2.3. Swapping or mixing of engine components between different engine types is not permitted, (e.g. mating the head from a M40 engine with the block from a M10).
9.3.3. Ignition/Starter/Electrical Systems
9.3.3.1. Spark plugs and spark plug wires may (3.1) be replaced (3.5).
9.3.3.2. Batteries may (3.1) be replaced (3.5).
SpecE30 Regulations
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9.3.4. Exhaust System
9.3.4.1. Any part of the exhaust system beginning with and including, the catalytic converter may (3.1) be modified (3.6), unless a replacement system is specified in these regulations, provided:
9.3.4.1.1. The system exits from
[quote]According to Carter’s post numbers are for torque [lbs.-ft] NOT horsepower [hp]
[/quote]
Igor…take a look on page 2…horsepower results are posted there.
Cheers,
Scott
sneville44 wrote:
[quote][quote]According to Carter’s post numbers are for torque [lbs.-ft] NOT horsepower [hp]
[/quote]
Igor…take a look on page 2…horsepower results are posted there.
Cheers,
Scott[/quote]
whaaaat, I need to read whole thread before posting 
(thanks for heads up)
I don’t know if anyone ‘monkeyed’ around with their engines, but dyno comments are still valid (I think we had more in depth discussion about it while back, or at least I remember writing a long post about a lot of possible errors in dyno measurements)
I believe that the general concensus is that the dyno at the last VIR race was about 4hp high. However is this is true my car lost 4hp since having it dyno’d in March on another Dynojet.
I have to believe that with my car being down 17hp to the highest tested SE30 car at VIR last month puts me at a serious disadvantage. I might have come up with a winter project that involves freshening my engine. Now I just need to figure out how to do it.
If you’re wondering how hp equates to lap time. At mid ohio my car first dyno’d at 145hp/140tq. Later we figured out the throttle was not opening all the way, and the numbers were 150hp/150tq. On the lower power band I struggled to get under 1:46 but eventually got a 1:45.8 in qualifying. We then fixed it and the rest of the weekend I could do low 45’s and eventually did a 1:44.8. I would say Carter’s car was giving up around a second at VIR North and I would say close to 2 seconds on the full circuit, especially with that dip.
Igor wrote:
[quote]Proeagles wrote:
According to Carter’s post numbers are for torque [lbs.-ft] NOT horsepower [hp]
"i" models are rated at 164 lbs-ft at 4300 RPM, however issue of measuring equipment (dyno) can still come to play. I think we are all aware that two most popular dyno makers don’t produce same test results for the same car…and I don’t know what bmw used to publish official ratings…[/quote]
EDIT: The HP numbers are also very high… I stand by my previous statement.
I would recommend that all ECU’s go into a bag and are randomly assigned.
vmwerks wrote:[/quote]
EDIT: The HP numbers are also very high… I stand by my previous statement.
I would recommend that all ECU’s go into a bag and are randomly assigned.[/quote]
This is probably not a bad idea. With these cars being 16-20 years old and having changed hands many times before we turned them into race cars, there may be cars with modified ECU’s without even knowing it.
screwynewy wrote:
EDIT: The HP numbers are also very high… I stand by my previous statement.
I would recommend that all ECU’s go into a bag and are randomly assigned.[/quote]
This is probably not a bad idea. With these cars being 16-20 years old and having changed hands many times before we turned them into race cars, there may be cars with modified ECU’s without even knowing it.[/quote]
you can tell by looking…the little tabs will have tool marks where they were bent to open the alum cover.
NASAregistrar wrote [quote]you can tell by looking…the little tabs will have tool marks where they were bent to open the alum cover.[/quote]
Sometimes. In 944 land (same ECU supplier as BMW?) malfunctioning motors are commonly fixed by opening the case and with a magnifying glass fixing (resoldering) bad joints on the boards. Did this just before the last VIR to fix an intermittent no start condition. So just because it’s been opened it may still be entirely legal.
A tale-tale sign of the addition of a chip is the screwdriver markings of a hack as they pry into the metal cover.
But, I’m not a hack. I’ll use a credit card to prevent the pry marks.
So, I’m in. The majority of chips will be black or may have a vendor name on it. Easy to spot the offending chip.Gotch ya!
Not so quick there detective…
I’m really good. I take the BMW logoed chip out, erase it, reprogram it and I’m now running at the front of the pack.
Rules enforcement will be a challenge as the field of cars grows.
I’m hopeful that Hunt and Mills can get a handle on the horsepower rules before thing get out of hand.
Good information from performance shops funneled to the rules committee would perhaps be welcomed.
Regards, Robert Patton
PS the ecu in the hat isn’t working for me…I don’t want that stinkin’ "525" ecu with the top speed cut-out at 122mph. Go forth and do some research to find out which legal ecu works best.
However, I guess, technically speaking, the racers with 1991 cars should just stay at home 'cause the 525 is the ecu that came with there car. Technically speaking, I am not sure the rules would allow for a change…
What a can of worms…
And remember, a large percentage of racing is preparation. Are you prepared?
Patton wrote:
[quote]A tale-tale sign of the addition of a chip is the screwdriver markings of a hack as they pry into the metal cover.
But, I’m not a hack. I’ll use a credit card to prevent the pry marks.
So, I’m in. The majority of chips will be black or may have a vendor name on it. Easy to spot the offending chip.Gotch ya!
Not so quick there detective…
I’m really good. I take the BMW logoed chip out, erase it, reprogram it and I’m now running at the front of the pack.
Rules enforcement will be a challenge as the field of cars grows.
I’m hopeful that Hunt and Mills can get a handle on the horsepower rules before thing get out of hand.
Good information from performance shops funneled to the rules committee would perhaps be welcomed.
Regards, Robert Patton
PS the ecu in the hat isn’t working for me…I don’t want that stinkin’ "525" ecu with the top speed cut-out at 122mph. Go forth and do some research to find out which legal ecu works best.
However, I guess, technically speaking, the racers with 1991 cars should just stay at home 'cause the 525 is the ecu that came with there car. Technically speaking, I am not sure the rules would allow for a change…
What a can of worms…
And remember, a large percentage of racing is preparation. Are you prepared?[/quote]
I am pretty sure my 1990 car has a 525 ECU in it…or did 
ok i found it
in Jan of 07 similar topic was discussed - at length I might add as the thread has 10 pages or so.
These were/are my opinions then and now about dyno, ecu s, etc
http://spece30.com/component/option,com_mamboboard/Itemid,/func,view/catid,3/id,9462/#9462
Igor