Disappointed in the H&R springs

#1

So…I’m putting together my first spec E30. Has anyone else noticed that our rear spec springs are nearly coil bound just under the weight of the car when sitting a rest? I did, and my car is totally stripped right now, It is going to weigh at least 500lbs more while racing. When the coils bind, the spring rate goes up dramtically, until the spring bottoms completely. I expected more from a $400 set of springs. I could have purchased a proper set of race springs and coilovers for less $$$, and they would work correctly.

I have gripes with many of the other parts we have to use, but the theme I’m noticing here is that I could have spent less money and made this car faster/safer, but instead I had to buy street car crap off a list and put it on my “racecar”. These cars have a ton of potential, I hope in the not too distant future the rule makers update our parts so we can realize it.

#2

The springs are designed to work that way, they are not coil binding. With the car on the ground there are only a few “active coils.”

I don’t know of anyone that has experienced true coil binding while racing. True coil binding will result in an infinite spring rate and that bad when the corner is loaded.

True, they are certainly not the stiffest spring out there but they are fine for our application and work well. I will agree they are over priced.

#3

mikeski38 wrote:

Dude, did you read the rules before you dove in? :huh: The rules haven’t changed. Maybe you picked the wrong class. If you are a “build a better mousetrap” kind of guy, you will find endless frustration in a spec-ish class like this.

I don’t care if we have to replace our springs with blocks of 2x4 and ride on Sears Roadhandlers. As long as everyone is playing with the same equipment, I dig it.

Steve D.

#4

mikeski38 wrote:

Never going to happen this is a spec series, with spec parts. We don’t change those parts once they are set because everyone would have to change their suspension. Honestly I believe a softer suspension actually encourages better racing. They are easy to drive, slide around and you can drive through the grass with practically no ill effects. This series is all about better racing not go fast parts. You could prep to GTS1 if you want the freedom to do what you want. If you want awesome racing with a bunch of good guys you’re in the right place. Honestly I’d like to hear what you say after your first real race.

#5

Steve D wrote:

[quote]mikeski38 wrote:

Dude, did you read the rules before you dove in? :huh: The rules haven’t changed. Maybe you picked the wrong class. If you are a “build a better mousetrap” kind of guy, you will find endless frustration in a spec-ish class like this.

I don’t care if we have to replace our springs with blocks of 2x4 and ride on Sears Roadhandlers. As long as everyone is playing with the same equipment, I dig it.

Steve D.[/quote]

All well and good as long as those 2x4’s and road handlers don’t cost me $400. BTW, you can run on BFG a/t’s, go buy a legend.

#6

Most of us have been snacking on the Koolaid far too long to come out of our coma, sharpen our pitchforks, and say, hey, we being screwed by the Series Man, just cause you think the springs suck and are too expensive.

It’s easy to quibble about any specific part and/or the price of said part, but when you add up all the required parts to build a car, I don’t think there is a better fun-to-$ ratio class you can find anywhere. These cars are cheap to build, cheap to run, and fun as hell to race. That’s what spec racing is about.

#7

We shoulda gone with the Turner J Stock springs.
We shoulda gone with bigger sway bars up front.
We shoulda gone with dual glasspack exhaust.
We shoulda gone with (you name it).

Have another glass of Kool-aide and enjoy the car’s build and the stable rules. You’ll enjoy the racing when the build is complete. Over time, you’ll find other things to complain about. By then the rules guys may have answers for those future concerns.

RP

#8

ctbimmer wrote:

[quote]Most of us have been snacking on the Koolaid far too long to come out of our coma, sharpen our pitchforks, and say, hey, we being screwed by the Series Man, just cause you think the springs suck and are too expensive.

It’s easy to quibble about any specific part and/or the price of said part, but when you add up all the required parts to build a car, I don’t think there is a better fun-to-$ ratio class you can find anywhere. These cars are cheap to build, cheap to run, and fun as hell to race. That’s what spec racing is about.[/quote]

I hope you are right. All the above is why I’m building one.

From my perspective, comming out of a less restrictive class, I’m looking at all these parts and not one of them would be on my list to buy if I were building this car for a different race group.

#9

Mike, and your point is???

RP

#10

Have you ever driven one of these on the track with the complete package? If no, I’d bite your tongue until then.

I just spent two days thrashing the crap out of mine at BR and find it wonderfully easy to drive and joyously predictable. That doesn’t mean it’s dull, either. I’m amazed at how well the package of simple bolt-on parts works. I don’t want a bunch of adjustable bullshit anodized parts to fuss with trying to find a miniscule advantage. I think it’s a great package.
:slight_smile:

#11

ddavidv wrote:

[quote]Have you ever driven one of these on the track with the complete package? If no, I’d bite your tongue until then.

:)[/quote]

Easy tiger, just starting a discussion on an online discussion forum.

#12

Mike, some of us have been here a long time. This isn’t the first time we have heard these complaints and I’m guessing it won’t be the last. Yes the springs will coil bind…but if we all have the same spring rate you learn how to drive it to the limit. As Ed said, it isn’t about building a better mousetrap.

#13

mikeski38 wrote:

[quote]ddavidv wrote:

[quote]Have you ever driven one of these on the track with the complete package? If no, I’d bite your tongue until then.

:)[/quote]

Easy tiger, just starting a discussion on an online discussion forum.[/quote]

Mike -

The premise of your “discussion” is that whoever specified the parts didn’t have your extensive background in motorsports, or they would have selected the correct parts.

As I recall, your first post to the forum suggested that we permit tying the cage to the A and B pillars.

I, too, came to SE30 from another series. I think you will find folks pretty receptive to genuine questions here. Like if you had started with “I just put the springs on my car and they look like they will coil bind once I have all the crap bolted to my car. Since this is my first E30 build, I was wondering if that is normal. If it is, has that caused you guys any trouble on track?”

Having been on board for about a year, I can tell you that the rules stability is quite respectable and makes for happy, long-term participants. You likely won’t get traction unless you discover something that will drastically increase safety, dramatically reduce costs, or is easily done by the backyard guy himself.

Steve D.

#14

As someone who did thier first race ever last weekend, and it was a spec e30 race, it was the time of my life. I am use to running miata’s at de’s but stepped up to the spec e30 to race and hone my skillz. The spec set up is not ment to be the fastest thing on the track it is ment to do a little bit of everything and focus on the driver more so then the car. The best performance mod you can do is to tighten the nut behind the wheel. lol Like I said had the time of my life for all of 7 laps until a bearing went out in the motor. But I will now build my spare motor and be back to do it again.

#15

theironman9154 wrote:

Hi Allen,
It was fun while it lasted. It was a shame that the motor let go so soon. Best of luck on the repair.

#16

mikeski38 wrote:

[quote]ddavidv wrote:

[quote]Have you ever driven one of these on the track with the complete package? If no, I’d bite your tongue until then.

:)[/quote]

Easy tiger, just starting a discussion on an online discussion forum.[/quote]

Not trying to be snooty, but if you haven’t driven one on the track yet I think your dislike of the springs isn’t really a worthy discussion. If, after driving the car several times and you still think they suck, then you can smack me on the helmet next time you see me.
:stuck_out_tongue:

#17

ddavidv wrote:

[quote]mikeski38 wrote:

[quote]ddavidv wrote:

[quote]Have you ever driven one of these on the track with the complete package? If no, I’d bite your tongue until then.

:)[/quote]

Easy tiger, just starting a discussion on an online discussion forum.[/quote]

Not trying to be snooty, but if you haven’t driven one on the track yet I think your dislike of the springs isn’t really a worthy discussion. If, after driving the car several times and you still think they suck, then you can smack me on the helmet next time you see me.
:P[/quote]

I know, I’m doing my best to keep an open mind, but the closer my car gets to completion, the more my mind is relying on field size to justify building this car.

#18

mikeski38 wrote:

Mike, I’ve driven BMW Club Racing CMod cars that have trick suspension (JRZ 3 way remote) and 350hp at the wheels. Racing a spec E30 in a tight field is way more fun. If it wasn’t about the racing why don’t we all time trial? You need to realize that racing closely with other cars is where the fun is at, going fast on a track is just part of the equation and going faster on the track doesn’t make it anymore fun really. Ultimately if you have noone to race with it becomes a glorfied DE no matter how trick your suspension is, it just isn’t much fun. The spec E30 is still fun to drive but really shines when you are surrounded by other similar boxy E30’s :). I think alot of people make the same mistakes when getting into racing, using expensive cars with lots of go fast bits because they think they need to have a fast car to have fun. You end up wasting a lot of money and soon realise that you could have been racing with 1/3 the budget and ultimately having better competition at the same time. Don’t get hung up on the benefits of all these so called “better” bits because they don’t change the driving experience a whole lot. Skip Bennett drives a Spec E30 and a Ferrari Challenge car, guess what he has more fun racing the Spec E30. There are other drivers who have came from much faster race cars to race Spec E30 because its cheap and fun. Trust me on this once you take your first race start in a large pack you’ll know what I was talking about and frankly will look back at this and wonder what the hell you were concerned about :). I look forward to your first race report, I bet you a beer at the track you won’t be complaining about the suspension B)

#19

Elephant4 wrote:

[quote]mikeski38 wrote:

Nope you’ll be complaining about sh!tty 20 yr old parts that break that you can’t buy anymore.:laugh: :laugh:

#20

Elephant4 wrote:

Like Miatas. :laugh: :stuck_out_tongue: :blink:

Steve D.