Crazy Suspension Problem?

#1

As you can see from the times this past weekend, I had a tough time putting down power in every right hand turn at Summit this past weekend. Even with an almost brand new tire on the left rear (Thanks Skip!), the car would over rotate when I needed it to stick.

I checked under the car when I tied it up on the trailer yesterday and there was nothing out of the ordinary or any visable rubbing of suspension parts. I was originally thinking that it might be the diff, but since it was only the left side having the problem, I am not so sure it is that.

My friend this evening mentioned that it could be a bad shock, so I am going to test that theory tomorrow.

Symptoms are the following:

  • For all right hand turns, the car oversteers to the extreme
  • It does not bounce and handles normally until I turn in, then it oversteers
  • The right side does not have the same problem when turning left
  • There does not seem to any rubbing of components under the car

There is not much under the car to check, so the only other thing I could think of would be a trailing arm bushing.

Is there anything else I need to look for that could cause these problems?

Thanks,

-Steve

#2

Steve,

I was looking at the in car video from Sundays race while behind you and it is very obvious that you have a suspension or alignment problem. It could be a bent trailing arm on your right rear corner that is throwing the alignment out. It could have happened the same time you broke a wheel during Saturdays race??? The car seemed to push really bad on turn 5 and oversteer on most the right handers. I would have a good alignment specialist check it out to see how it looks then you can know where to start you search for the cause.

Anyway, I had a great time racing with you and your car handling issues. It made for a good race since everyone else had run away from us.

  • Ken
#3

Steve, definately check the alignment. I didn’t see anything obviouslly broken under there but w/ the hit you took it still could have easily bent something. You should definately get it up in the air and go over everything w/ a fine tooth comb.

SMD

#4

screwynewy wrote:

[quote]Steve,

I was looking at the in car video from Sundays race while behind you and it is very obvious that you have a suspension or alignment problem. It could be a bent trailing arm on your right rear corner that is throwing the alignment out. It could have happened the same time you broke a wheel during Saturdays race??? The car seemed to push really bad on turn 5 and oversteer on most the right handers. I would have a good alignment specialist check it out to see how it looks then you can know where to start you search for the cause.

Anyway, I had a great time racing with you and your car handling issues. It made for a good race since everyone else had run away from us.

  • Ken[/quote]

Can you email me so I might be able to get a copy of the video?

-Steve
kappy@abs.net

#5

smdubovsky wrote:

[quote]Steve, definately check the alignment. I didn’t see anything obviouslly broken under there but w/ the hit you took it still could have easily bent something. You should definately get it up in the air and go over everything w/ a fine tooth comb.

SMD[/quote] Steve,
you can do a quick string alignment to see if you have an issue without carting the car all over the place.

#6

After watching Ken’s video yesterday, my prediction is toe-out in the rear.

Carter

#7

Carter wrote:

[quote]After watching Ken’s video yesterday, my prediction is toe-out in the rear.

Carter[/quote]

I took it to NTB today (I know, I know) because I got them to agree to a 3 year alignment package for a good price when I bought the race car.

Seems it was too good of a deal. They could not get toe on the car because the camber was so far out of range the computer would not perform the toe calibration. They told me afterwards that if I would have given them custom settings they could have done it.

Anyway, the camber on the car is interesting:

LF: -3.8
RF: -3.3
LR: -2.6
RR: -3.1

I am not sure how accurate it is considering they could not give me toe settings.

Carter, would you hazard to guess which side you think the toe out is on?

Could it be a large toe in situation on the right rear that could be causing it?

Either way, I really tried to get the most out of my car this past weekend. :slight_smile:

It was definitely a learning experience I would prefer not to repeat.

-Steve

#8

stevekappy wrote:

[quote]Carter wrote:

[quote]After watching Ken’s video yesterday, my prediction is toe-out in the rear.

Carter[/quote]

I took it to NTB today (I know, I know) because I got them to agree to a 3 year alignment package for a good price when I bought the race car.

Seems it was too good of a deal. They could not get toe on the car because the camber was so far out of range the computer would not perform the toe calibration. They told me afterwards that if I would have given them custom settings they could have done it.

Anyway, the camber on the car is interesting:

LF: -3.8
RF: -3.3
LR: -2.6
RR: -3.1

I am not sure how accurate it is considering they could not give me toe settings.

Carter, would you hazard to guess which side you think the toe out is on?

Could it be a large toe in situation on the right rear that could be causing it?

Either way, I really tried to get the most out of my car this past weekend. :slight_smile:

It was definitely a learning experience I would prefer not to repeat.

-Steve[/quote]Stupid computers…I had the same problem when there was a bent trailing arm on the honda…anyway, get a buddy and a long string and pull it along the side of the car, touching the tires at hub level. you will get a rough estimate of rear toe, and front too…

#9

Steve - what was the result of checking out the shock? We had weird handling issues before on our 240z - turned out to be a bad rear shock.
Ed

#10

edavidson wrote:

[quote]Steve - what was the result of checking out the shock? We had weird handling issues before on our 240z - turned out to be a bad rear shock.
Ed[/quote]

Didn’t get a chance to check it because work today kicked my butt. Hopefully I will get a chance to check it tomorrow after checking out a new toy.

Cross your fingers everyone, a new baby Spec E30 might be mine tomorrow :slight_smile:

-Steve

#11

stevekappy wrote:

[quote]Carter wrote:

[quote]After watching Ken’s video yesterday, my prediction is toe-out in the rear.

Carter[/quote]

I took it to NTB today (I know, I know) because I got them to agree to a 3 year alignment package for a good price when I bought the race car.

Seems it was too good of a deal. They could not get toe on the car because the camber was so far out of range the computer would not perform the toe calibration. They told me afterwards that if I would have given them custom settings they could have done it.

Anyway, the camber on the car is interesting:

LF: -3.8
RF: -3.3
LR: -2.6
RR: -3.1

I am not sure how accurate it is considering they could not give me toe settings.

Carter, would you hazard to guess which side you think the toe out is on?

Could it be a large toe in situation on the right rear that could be causing it?

Either way, I really tried to get the most out of my car this past weekend. :slight_smile:

It was definitely a learning experience I would prefer not to repeat.

-Steve[/quote]

Hard to tell. As Sean said, check it either with a string or with a couple of plates and a couple of measuring tapes.

Carter

#12

Ok… Got a chance to pull the shocks this afternoon after the rain.

The right shock under human power will travel all the way to the bump stop.

The left shock goes up with more force needed than the right, but stops about 3 inches from the bump stop and requires much more effort to get it to within 1/2 inch from the top. I am not strong enough to get it to the bump stop. My brother is obviously stronger and was able to get the full travel out of it.

I have not done the strings and tape measure thing yet. I will do that tomorrow.

Do the shocks sound normal? I am thinking they should both be the same and not be a noticable difference between the two.

Ken, thanks for the video! I am glad it did not look as bad handling wise as it felt in the car!

I also noticed my left side seems to sag more than the right in turns. Maybe I am seeing something that is not there, but I really am getting nervous as Nationals is approaching and I do not have anything definitive to point to.

Any additional thoughts from the group will be greatly appreciated.

-Steve

#13

edavidson wrote:

[quote]Steve - what was the result of checking out the shock? We had weird handling issues before on our 240z - turned out to be a bad rear shock.
Ed[/quote]

actually the bad rear shock on our 240z felt like our steering rack was missing teeth. The car would bite on the initial turn in and then just lose all the grip on the front end. It was by far the weirdest feeling on track.

#14

I would call Bilstein on Tuesday and ask for a tech support person.

Carter

#15

What kind of adjusting parts do you have on your trailing arms? I find it difficult to adjust the ones I have by rotating the bolt and tightening it down, and when I took my car to one alignment guy, he said he had a real hard time trying to adjust things just because of the clearance in there…so I wonder if some alignment shops don’t even touch them when they do an alignment…

#16

Yo Steve

If you need any suspension pieces shoot me an email, I can have them there UPS within 2 days. The shocks sound OK, if there was a problem one would be weak as hell.

Al

wabmw25@aol.com

#17

FARTBREF wrote:

[quote]Yo Steve

If you need any suspension pieces shoot me an email, I can have them there UPS within 2 days. The shocks sound OK, if there was a problem one would be weak as hell.

Al

wabmw25@aol.com[/quote]

Al,

Here is how I think I am going to need to proceed:

  • Call Bilstein to see if that is normal behavior and see if they will send me rear shocks
  • Obtain two trailing arms (from my best friend Al :slight_smile: )
  • Arrive Tuesday night at Mid-Ohio and use Wednesday as a testing day with any new components to put in.

Here are the next questions I have:

  • How long does it take to replace trailing arms?
  • Can a take the powerflex bushings from my trailing arms and get them into the new trailing arms at the track (or with tools I can bring to the track)?
  • What else should I consider bringing to remedy the situation?

I cannot drive the car on the street to test since it only performs badly under extreme driving.

Mike D’s symptoms were similar to mine. I would go into the turn it would feel good, so I push a little harder and the car would whip around quicker than I expected (at least the first time it did).

Forest… Good to hear from you and see you are still lurking :slight_smile: I do not have adjustible trailing arm bushings. Could my poly bushings be dead after 2 seasons?

Thanks guys for assisting me with all of this. Unfortunately, I am travelling again and will not have time to fix until this weekend. Al, trailing arms from you would be great. Let me know how much and if we can partially swap from the aforementioned Cat.

-Steve

#18

So what was the rear toe? Never want toe out on the rear. I chased some very bad handling problems and swaped some parts before I checked the rear toe and it was around an inch toe out. 0 toe or a tad in on the rear.

Michael O.

#19

I will bring a pair of rear arms to the nationals, along with new factory offset bushings, I have this stuf lined up for the bronze car…Trailing arm at the track is no big deal…

I bet that since this showed up after the contact on saturday that you have a bent arm…you did change tires on just one side also???

Al

#20

FARTBREF wrote:

[quote]ITrailing arm at the track is no big deal…

Al[/quote]
Is that because those bolts are so easy to get to?