Crank scraper install?

#1

I searched for this last night but could not find a thread directly on the install.

My engine is in the car and I don’t really want to pull the engine or drop the suspension to install a crank scraper.

What is involved in doing this with the engine in the car? Is it actually feasible to do it with the engine in the car or not? If so, if someone can map out what I need to do, and how one goes about adjusting the scraper, I might take a crack at it this weekend, since everyone says it is mandatory.

Any particular recommendation on brand of scraper?

Thanks.

-Scott

#2

I just did this last week, so it’s still fresh in my mind.

It’s really not too hard of a project once you get the steering rack and engine mounts out and the engine lifted up.

Here’s a few of my observations:

Get the Teflon scraper. It can be trimmed with a razor knife very easily. Just roll the crank around and trim till the contact is minimized. Much easier than removing metal.

Some have suggested to “glue” the scraper to the bottom of the block with RTV and let it set before reinstalling the pan. I tried this twice, but each time it pulled away once the bolts were removed. I don’t know if this is possible with the regular scraper, but with the weight of the Teflon and extra hardware I couldn’t make it work. Just clearance the scraper and slam everything back in there. The alignment is a little tricky with scraper, gasket and pan (and oil pump reinstallation), but it’s doable.

Call Chuck or go directly to I-J. If you want to do it this weekend I-J is your only hope since the Teflon scraper is special order for Chuck and he only ships on Fridays.

Good Luck,
Matt

#3

Teflon is the only way to go if you are installing this with your motor in place. The teflon scraper will be much easier to install because you don’t have to make it fit perfectly by trial and error. A little trial and error is no big deal when your engine is on a stand, but a pita from below.

My “perception” is that it’s ok to allow the crank to hit a little teflon. The crank will quickly wear it away and a snug fit will be acheived. A little. Don’t end up with a bunch of chunks of teflon looking to plug your oil filter.

It takes some iterations to get the scraper trimmed just right. Since the screws don’t locate the scraper precisely, it will be a little different each time. Once you decide the scraper has been trimmed perfectly, it will not want to stay in place while you put on the oil pump, checkvale and oil pan. Inevitably the process of putting on the oil pan will shift the scraper a little. Then you’ll be concerned that the crank is going to hit it. Then you’ll have to go get your wife to turn the engine thru a couple revs for the 20th time so you can lay underneath it and watch for any contact between crank and scraper. And there lies the beauty of a teflon scraper, in that you can afford some contact.

I used high tack gasket goop on the underside of the block to hold the scraper in place. You’ll get some of this in your hair, eyes, face and shirt. It dries pretty quickly so you should be able to remove the locating bolts from the scraper, put in pump and checkvalve, and then install the oil pan soon after.

Matt said it was not too hard, but for me it was a pita. It took hours. I did not remove the steering rack. I just unfastened the engine and tranny mounts, then lifted the engine a couple inches.

#4

Yes, on the car Teflon is a must. The steel is cut pretty poorly. And it’s too much of a pain while working overhead.

I ‘glued’ up the scraper after trimming and then again after it set. I used Permatex copper and it easily held up the assembly. You must fully clean both mating surfaces (brake cleaner) and let it set for 24hrs for this to work.

#5

A couple of notes…I do not want Teflon in my engine. Personal preference.

Use any of the gasket makes, red, blue, black whatever and after trimming the scraper, install on the block with ALL the bolts tightened. Note, there are longer and shorter, open holes and blind holes. I would suggest you get a box of 6 X 1 X 14mm bolts form Mcmaster and use these for fit-up. You do not want the bolts to bottom in the blind holes. Let gasket maker sit 24 hours before removing the bolts. Do not use what Ranger recommended! You want to seal the scraper in place and the silicone gasket maker will do just that.

You will have to grind around the oil pump for clearance. You can also grind the edge of the oil pump some. I also enlarge the bolt holes in the scraper one drill size to make assembly easier. CB

#6

cwbaader wrote:

Dang. What’re you picking on me for?

#7

Because I have seen the inside of your motor:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: CB

#8

cwbaader wrote:

Ouch.

But what part precisely are you disagreeing with?

#9
#10

The substance you used to seal the scraper did not attach the scraper to the block. As soon as I pulled the pan, the scraper fell off. If you use the silicone gasket makers, you can usually pull the pan without disturbing the scraper. CB

#11

cwbaader wrote:

Can you post a link to some of that stuff? That would have made the afternoon-of-the-crankscraper a bit easier.

As I recall, what I had to do is use various C clamp sorts of things and work to put them on such that they just barely held the scraper up to the block. It took some trial and error but I was eventually able to get the oil pan in place and get many of the bolts started, even with the fingers of all of these C clamps just barely hanging on to the scraper. Then as I tightened the bolts I’d get to a point where each C clamp had to come out, but by then I had so many bolts in that the scraper didn’t want to move around anymore.

I know that sounds like a rediculous way to hold the scraper in place while bolting the oil pan on, but I’d already spent a couple hours trying less absurd solutions.

#12

http://www.permatex.com/documents/GasketMakerSelector.pdf

Like I said, the blue, black, or red will all work.

You are working too hard. Just put a bead on the scraper and install a couple of bolts. Then start the remainder and tighten all. Let sit 24 hours, remove bolts, and do the pan the same way. cB

#13

I used the “Ultra Black” and it definately didn’t work. Both surfaces were very clean and it had several days to cure. Still didn’t hold up the scraper once the bolts were removed.

Matt

#14

Matt H. wrote:

[quote]I used the “Ultra Black” and it definitely didn’t work. Both surfaces were very clean and it had several days to cure. Still didn’t hold up the scraper once the bolts were removed.

Matt[/quote]

How big of bead are you applying? All that’s needed is a bead barely 1/8" wide and no more. As long as both surfaces were properly cleaned (solvent/brake cleaner etc) adhesion should not be an issue.

As already mentioned, clamping down with all the bolts is the best method of clamp up. You will need shorter bolts or extra washers to achieve proper clamping force. Install 2 bolts front and rear a couple threads worth to hold it up. Then proceed to install the rest. Then slowly alternate tightening to bring the two surfaces together evenly.

I used Permatex Copper only because I already owned it.

-Mike

#15

I used the ultra grey stuff, it said it was for oil pans, which seemed appropriate. A tiny bead is all you need, it’s pretty easy to work with. Even easier if the engine is upside down on a stand though…

#16

I put mine in yesterday, the kit came with some RTV of some sort, I put the RTV on, put the scraper to the block, put the bolts in, let it sit overnight, held the scraper perfectly, removed the bolts, installed the pan, job all done.

We’ll see how it works.

-Scott

#17

Did you use the teflon or the steel scraper?

#18

Teflon. The entire body of the thing is steel, but with little teflon bolt-on edges.

-Scott

#19

So… if I have a leaking oil pan, would that be like a particularly good time to go ahead and do a crank scraper? Is it worth it on a junkyard motor? I guess I’m not entirely sure what it does.

#20

Install the scraper.

The scraper does 2 things. It’s primary role is as a right-side oil pan baffle. The goal is to keep the oil pump pickup covered. The scraper makes it harder for the pool of oil in the front of your pan to slosh up the right side of your motor. The scraper has spring-loaded trap doors in it tho that make it easy for oil on the right side of your motor to go down thru the scraper and get to the pump. So on the right side the oil finds it hard to go up, but easy to come down.

The 2nd thing the scraper does is act as a scraper. A genuine crank scraper has fingers of sheet metal that reach up and almost touch the central axis of the crank shaft. Because of the design of our motor, our scrapers are, in contrast, well below the axis of our crank. Since it doesn’t really reach up to the central axis of the crank, it’s not as good a scraper as other engine designs allow.

Imagine the inside of the block as a crazily frenetic environment of spinning oil surrounding the crank. An oil tornado is a useful image. Oil is squirting out of the main bearings and rod bearings and being whirled around at 6k rpm. The scraper’s fingers of sheetmetal almost touching the crank’s lobes as they spin by significantly reduces the oil and air tornado because it largely blocks any 360deg path for the air/oil to whirl around. Therefore the oil that would otherwise be “attached” to the crank falls to the pan.

This increases the oil volume in the pan. And by rapidly pulling oil off of the crank, there’s also a slight increase in efficiency. Parasitic losses are reduced by minimizing the oil hurricane, even if you’re unlikely to actually notice the small hp gain. From the estimates I’ve read, I’d guesstimate 1hp.