converting to wheel studs...

#1

Hi All,

I’m a newbie, so I apologize if this has been covered, but forum searching for info has only yielded “Yes, you should change to wheel studs” without a lot of specifics. If there’s a particular thread about it, please point me in that direction—thanks!

http://www.factory3performance.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=295

Quick question: I checked out Factory 3’s wheel stud/lug nut set up, and was curious as to why the nut doesn’t have a tapered seat? Maybe it’s just a stock photo, but I figured that when converting to wheel studs from lug bolts the nut would have to be tapered in order to allow the stud to be centered within the stud hole of the wheel.

Does any M12 x 1.5 tapered nut work, or is there a preferred one?

Thanks in advance!
Steve

#2

Nut looks like it has a tapered seat to me.

Studs come in different lengths, which can be important if you end up running spacers. Some studs have an hex hole for easier installation, and some have tapered noses to help center the nut when you first thread it.

Somewhere here is a my stud goatscrew thread. Studs should thread into the hub easily, if they don’t keep cleaning and chasing the threads until they do go in easily. Whatever you do, don’t be tempted to tighten the stud into the hub. What will happen is that you will decide that if you just tighten a bit more you can get the last couple of threads in that you need. But it won’t work. And then you won’t be able to get the stud out for money or love.

Once you’re sure that the stud is going to go in nice and easy, use high temp locktite and put it in permanently. I don’t recall the torque required, but I’m pretty sure it was <22ftlbs.

Then let the locktite dry over night before tightening lug nuts.

After the studs are installed, lube your studs with high temp anti-seize every event. That will prevent the lug nuts from pulling your studs out.

BTW, removing studs with cured locktite requires a really hot torch. No sissy flame, make the torch roar.

I would just buy the nuts from whomever you buy the studs from. Get extra ones.

#3

Thanks for the tips. Much obliged

Doh! So much for posting late at night after some wine…I looked at the pic wrong.

#4

I installed the Vorshlag studs in my E30. I agree with everything Ranger said. I have run Vorshlag studs on both of my M3s with no issues.

#5

what do you torque the lugs to when you use anti sieze on the studs? anti sieze should change the coefficient of friction, thus changing the desired torque value, right?

#6

Torque value stays the same with anti-sieze (or any other lubricant). The purpose of the anti-seize is to prevent galling of the threads.

#7

jlevie wrote:

Jim,

I have always read that it requires less torque to arrive at the same clamping force when the friction on the thread is reduced.

Here is an example.

#8

The torque required is ABSOLUTELY modified by putting anti-seize (or anything else) on threads. Your bolt/stud tension will be greater if you keep the same torque.

#9

Max torque for a grade 8.8 12mm bolt is ~100ftlbs. I would’t worry about 75-80ftlbs causing problems. Especially since a lug nut is taller then a standard nut and therefore contains more threads.

Later edit. Well, some more research shows a wide variety of numbers, and a lot of them are ~60ftlbs for lubricated bolts. There is a rule of thumb of 15-25% less torque for lubricated bolts. So maybe it’s an issue after all.

Does the service manual suggest lubricating lug bolts?

I torque my lubricated lugnuts to 80ftlbs. Maybe I should reduce that to 75.

#10

csrow wrote:

[quote]jlevie wrote:

Jim,

I have always read that it requires less torque to arrive at the same clamping force when the friction on the thread is reduced.

Here is an example.[/quote]
That is true, but standard practice is to specify the torque value for a clean and lightly lubricated fastener. That would be the greatest stress on the fastener and thus a conservative specification. So I stand by my statement.

#11

Ranger,

I am a little confused by this:
"After the studs are installed, lube your studs with high temp anti-seize every event. That will prevent the lug nuts from pulling your studs out.

BTW, removing studs with cured locktite requires a really hot torch. No sissy flame, make the torch roar."

If you’ve used locktite on the studs, how will non-lubed lugnuts potentially remove the studs if I need a big hot torch to do it? My reason for asking is that I had an acquaintance who put anti-seize on the lower control arm bolts which connected the LCA to the front McPherson strut of his 240Z. While on a cruise the bolt worked its way out, even when torqued to the proper value. Do you think antiseize may be problematic under racing conditions, then?

Sorry for the ignorance. I’ve been learning a lot while lurking in the back row of the class, but I still don’t have a position on motor oil.:blink: I do side on the team that doesn’t plug radiator hoses :S , and am ambivalent on the Poore pan with or without scraper, as both seem to do a good job.:blush:

#12

Anti-seize or lubricant will prevent the lug nuts from galling and seizing on the studs. And if you pull the wheels with the hubs and studs hot, fresh from the track it tends to keep the studs from backing out. All thread lockers soften with temperature and at 200-250F even red Locktite has lost most of its strength. So it doesn’t take much friction between the nut and the stud to cause the stud to back out.

When removing studs, a MAPP gas torch applied to the hub at the stud for about 30 seconds is all it takes to soften the Locktite enough for the studs to be removed.

#13

Steve C wrote:

quit sitting on the fence and take sides! :slight_smile:

#14

jlevie wrote:

[quote]Anti-seize or lubricant will prevent the lug nuts from galling and seizing on the studs. And if you pull the wheels with the hubs and studs hot, fresh from the track it tends to keep the studs from backing out. All thread lockers soften with temperature and at 200-250F even red Locktite has lost most of its strength. So it doesn’t take much friction between the nut and the stud to cause the stud to back out.

When removing studs, a MAPP gas torch applied to the hub at the stud for about 30 seconds is all it takes to soften the Locktite enough for the studs to be removed.[/quote]

The only thing that I would add to Jim’s answer is to emphasise that the torch has to be hot. I dicked around for about 30min heating and trying to double-nut a stud out, heat some more, try some more, heat some more…Then I figured out that if I gave the torch enough propane that it became “loud” the flame was much hotter. And then the studs came out in a jiffy.

I had problems with studs coming out until I started using anti-seize on them. I’m just a datapoint, I’m not saying it’s some eternal truth.

#15

If you want cheap, there are some studs offered on EBAY. I would consider them only fair in quality, so beware. They look like Chinese junk to me. They have the hex insert for installation, but they are on the short side. I had someone bring them in to the shop for installation. If it was my car, I would spend the extra money on the long bullet nose studs like Factory3 or Bimmerworld sells. You know what they say: I am too poor to be cheap.

#16

…

#17

edit: disregard…answered my own question. sorry. Steve

#18

$6.99 each for race quality studs from BW. I bought 16 and 4 spare, installed with Loctite 272 High Temp High Strength Thread Locker. I also use Loctite Silver-Grade Anti-Seize on the studs with the BimmerWorld supplied lug nuts. This anti-seize is available in a little twist stick (like a glue stick), and is also perfect for lubricating the solid brake guides (also from BimmerWorld).