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Gasman wrote:
Gasman (ironic topic of discussion:laugh: ) -
You may want to propose a rule like they have in SSM:
3.1.3.1.
Fuel filler trap door and restrictor plate in filler neck may be removed.
This would have no effect on Spec E30 competition, but would help us stay competitive in E2 enduro competition. This is another “free” modification that could be done in the backyard garage. Not with a torch though.
Steve D wrote:
[quote]Gasman wrote:
This is in the HPDE section of the CCR. Is there a similar rule for racing?
6.9 Body Contact
Body contact cannot and WILL NOT be tolerated. Anyone involved in body contact must report immediately to the head of pit lane. Harsh penalties will be imposed, including but not limited to, permanent ejection from NASA. [/quote]
I honestly thought there was, but after looking again do not see it.
Steve D wrote:
[quote]Gasman wrote:
Gasman (ironic topic of discussion:laugh: ) -
You may want to propose a rule like they have in SSM:
3.1.3.1.
Fuel filler trap door and restrictor plate in filler neck may be removed.
This would have no effect on Spec E30 competition, but would help us stay competitive in E2 enduro competition. This is another “free” modification that could be done in the backyard garage. Not with a torch though.[/quote]
Steve, I have removed the restrictor plate. It doesn’t help a five gallon can lose its contents any quicker.
Gasman wrote:
Sounds like someone is starting one lap down at the next race. :huh: :woohoo:
[size=1]Just kidding. That would be a weenie protest for sure. But is it a safety issue? Probably a toss-up between a fuel cell bladder in the crush zone vs. a stock tank with no rollover flap in the neck.[/size]
Gasman wrote:
[quote]Steve D wrote:
[quote]Gasman wrote:
Gasman (ironic topic of discussion:laugh: ) -
You may want to propose a rule like they have in SSM:
3.1.3.1.
Fuel filler trap door and restrictor plate in filler neck may be removed.
This would have no effect on Spec E30 competition, but would help us stay competitive in E2 enduro competition. This is another “free” modification that could be done in the backyard garage. Not with a torch though.[/quote]
Steve, I have removed the restrictor plate. It doesn’t help a five gallon can lose its contents any quicker.[/quote]
Steve (and others),
We’ve have had many a conversation in the paddock and in the pits during an enduro or 3 about this. The reason removal of the restrictor plate in the filler neck doesn’t give us any gains has more to do with the fuel jugs than anything else. The opening where the hose connects to the jug restricts the flow. So when folks remove the restrictor and PVC tube at the end of the hose (the part that goes into the filler neck), they still have their flow being restricted at the starting point of flow. We’d need to lobby for the enduro rules to change (not Spec E30) in order to make the jugs 90% of what’s in use competitive with the quick dump cans used by the few. I’ve seen some bastardizations out there, but I’m not sure the rules permit that as currently written. IMO… this modification should have been permitted once the quick dump cans were approved for use. To you’re point… it’s only fair.
As for the fuel cell… I’m not taking sides on either. Just pointing out it’s OK within the rules.
I still say, you guys who race in the Southeast Endurance Series should bring your issues up with Drew and/or Turnip if you want to try to have any changes made to the rules.
FYI - the quick dumps were only ‘disallowed’ because theoretically they allowed more than the 5 gallon max. Last year it was pointed out that ALL cans allow you to get over 5 gallon so they were permitted then. That and the abscence of any ‘approved’ jug list despite the reference in the rules.
Earlier this year they changed that so that you could dump any amount of fuel after lobbying by the ES, etc guys. Once that went into effect I would imagine (but never asked) that even the bigger 10 gal. dumps would be okay. Since again the issue was capacity not speed of flow.
In terms of the fuel cell, I’m unlike 99% of the internet in that I don’t pretend to be an expert. I have no real opinions on cage design, oil pressure, or safety. I try my best to follow the rules and assume that people smarter than me have thought that through. All I can say are ‘facts’ my fuel cell was not installed to gain any competitive advantage it was done so that my car would work. I won’t rehash the starvation problems and attempted solutions. In short it was this or buy a different car and start over. The fuel cell was professionally installed by BimmerWorld who has experience installing similar setups in World Challenge cars that go much faster and with more at stake than my SE30. Its FIA rated so I’m sure they’ve taken the time to test and make sure its bulletproof. They’re in France after all. I also have a solid bulkhead between the cell and the driver compartment. In terms of the crush zone since I pulled the mounting rod out of the trunk by hand I’m not sure how much structural integrity, etc. the spare tire provides but I doubt it is any more or less than a welded steel cradle and aluminum box that makes up the fuel cell.
Is it an advantage in the pits, for sure however it is legal by the rules, so it is therefore up to each competitor to decide how and at what level they want to compete. The advantage was more of a happy accident than any plan, but I’ll take whatever good fortune comes my way. I’ll also point out that I don’t think the pit stops made the determining factor in every race, but more the consistent pace. If it did I won’t apologize since pit stops and strategy are part of endurance racing and why teams spend $$$ up to the F1 level work to shave tenths of a second off their stops. Its the easiest time to gain or lose.
Back to the original topic. We had a good run in '07. As Patton says know who you’re racing. I think a lot of incidents are related to hail mary type plays. You don’t throw the hail mary on the 1st down. Have paitence and pick your spots. Sometimes the guy infront will make a mistake sometimes he won’t. Learn to qualify better if you don’t like it. I remember racing Patton at Road Atlanta for a podium spot? Can’t recall which. On the final lap I could have stuck it in going down 12, I might have snuck by I might have used a winch to put the car on the trailer. I settled for one spot less and no body work. No one is scanning the SE30 results sheets for the next road racing superstar.
All due respect.
scottmc wrote:
[quote]
Steve (and others),
We’ve have had many a conversation in the paddock and in the pits during an enduro or 3 about this. The reason removal of the restrictor plate in the filler neck doesn’t give us any gains has more to do with the fuel jugs than anything else. The opening where the hose connects to the jug restricts the flow. So when folks remove the restrictor and PVC tube at the end of the hose (the part that goes into the filler neck), they still have their flow being restricted at the starting point of flow. We’d need to lobby for the enduro rules to change (not Spec E30) in order to make the jugs 90% of what’s in use competitive with the quick dump cans used by the few. I’ve seen some bastardizations out there, but I’m not sure the rules permit that as currently written. IMO… this modification should have been permitted once the quick dump cans were approved for use. To you’re point… it’s only fair.
I still say, you guys who race in the Southeast Endurance Series should bring your issues up with Drew and/or Turnip if you want to try to have any changes made to the rules.[/quote]
Fred and I got 2nd in the enduro for the year, although god knows how. We have been noticing that we’ve been getting our asses kicked in the refueling contest. I think that specing a certain gas jug and filler hose combo, like the standard Discovery Parts gear, would be a good idea. That would certainly be better then everyone screwing with their car’s filler necks and home-brewing jug hoses. I’ll mention it to Turnip.
Jim, I agree with everything you said and I hope you don’t think I thought you were bending the rules…trust me, I don’t. My intention is to race every endurance race next year. Congratulations on winning the series this year but I intend to take this title from you next year. Obviously, I would rather not have to make the modifications to my car that you decided to make for the reasons that I vocalized…but it is what it is, there is no other way to beat you guys. Our pit stop time differences were the only differences we had against each other this year. I look forward to racing with you next year. 
“Fred and I got 2nd in the enduro for the year, although god knows how”.
You are welcome! Did I at least get an honorable mention for my donut DQ?
The rules as written for refueling seem perfectly adequate to me, with the possible exception as to a clear definition of what constitutes a “NASA approved 5-gallon plastic fuel container”. So I don’t see the need for any substantive rule changes in that respect. The only possible change that I could see, to cover the case of a fuel cell equipped car, might be a restriction on the nozzle diameter to be equal to what an unleaded gas nozzle is.
“Fred and I got 2nd in the enduro for the year, although god knows how”.
I can tell you how. Bill Z. and myself weren’t able to compete in the last two Enduros that were both double points races.
jlevie wrote:
[quote]
“Fred and I got 2nd in the enduro for the year, although god knows how”.
I can tell you how. Bill Z. and myself weren’t able to compete in the last two Enduros that were both double points races.[/quote]
:woohoo: