Cars Dyno'd at Summit

#1

I thought the group might find the results interesting…

Dynopack

Vic - 127.3 hp and 138.7 torque
Steve - 130.6 hp and 131.9 torque
Chris - 136.5 hp and 141.0 torque
Carter - 139.5 hp and 142.0 torque
Carlton 142.6 hp and 143.6 torque

A few notes/comment during the testing…

Vic’s car has pretty good torque but low hp. His exhaust is quiet. Is the engine not breathing very well?

Steve’s car has low-ish hp and very low torque. I suggest a leak-down test. Any other suggestions?

Chris’ car is a little low on hp but the torque is good. And I think that a three or four hp difference in 16 year-old cars is reasonable, especially considering the differences in exhausts and intakes.

My car has good hp and good torque. Not bad for 256,000 miles. Interestingly, we unplugged the brand-new O2 sensor and the car pulled 146 hp! I raced it with the O2 sensor plugged-in and plan to do it that way because the O2 sensor isn’t specifically mentioned in the rules, and it was plugged-in from the factory. Tow weeks prior and on a Dynojet, my car made 148.0 hp and 144.6 torque.

Carlton’s car made the most hp and torque…but just barely. His car pulled three more hp than my car then, and 2.5 more hp on the Dynojet.

As we go into next season, we will continue to dyno cars at the track. We are thinking about a $10.00 per race dyno fee from each driver. This will pay for the dyno for the top three cars. Even if a new driver never finishes in the top three, his $10.00 will prove to him that the leaders aren’t cheating. If I was just starting out or racing midpack, I would gladly pay $10.00 per weekend to know if the leaders are cheating, or not. Actually, I spend more than that on Gatorade.

Carter

#2

Protest the green car!! :wink: :wink:

right there is proof that it is seat time and not HP/torque that gets the wins.

Carlton, how fresh is your engine? what did you repair/replace/renew?

#3

Carter,

Alex and I dyno’d our cars on Sunday.

Alex: 138 hp (I don’t remember torque but it was close to the others)
Han: 129 hp and 135 torque

Here’s a scan of my dyno vs Carlton’s.

http://www.salazar-racing.com/images/temp/han_carlton_dyno.jpg

Btw, Vic and I are both running stock mufflers.

Han

Post edited by: han, at: 2005/10/18 08:14

#4

Han and Alex:

Thanks for dyno’ing your cars. I’ll add the numbers to the list in the "Official Spec E30 Book."

Carter

#5

I am happy Carters machine at 270,000 miles has 146hps of possible power even if he runs a modest 139 to make us common folk feel better about him beating everyone all the time :slight_smile: If I could just learn a bit more race craft I may have a chance for a podium or two next year, provided Carter does not let in too many ringers for the 2006 season.

In case anyone cares, my car has 170,000 miles on it, I have not even changed the timing belt, which is way over due. Oh I did change the oil three times since I bought the car off a NY soccor mom. I forgot, … I have a backwards brake bias. I used one set of front pads vs two/three sets of rear pads. Lack of brakes probably explains my reasonably good lap times for a rookie

Team Green :slight_smile:
ps: I left out the part about the God given talent! I kind of like the ring of "Beethoven Racing"

#6

What does it cost to get a car on the dyno? I want to get a baseline

#7

Carlton wrote:

[quote]I am happy Carters machine at 270,000 miles has 146hps of possible power even if he runs a modest 139 to make us common folk feel better about him beating everyone all the time :slight_smile: If I could just learn a bit more race craft I may have a chance for a podium or two next year, provided Carter does not let in too many ringers for the 2006 season.

Team Green :slight_smile:
ps: I left out the part about the God given talent! I kind of like the ring of "Beethoven Racing"[/quote]

Carlton:

You’re waaay too complimentary about my driving. I won the championship by 25 points (out of over 900), I don’t hold the lap records, and while I had some good weekends, I certainly didn’t win every race, not was I on pole every weekend. When I did win, it was by a second or two and when I had pole, several drivers (yourself included) were always within a tenth or two.

Speaking of you, with a little more traffic experience, you’ll be on the podium for sure next year…as will Vic, Alex, Chuck, Jeff, Don, Chris, and many others. The competition is only getting stronger and you’llbe right in the thick of it. :slight_smile:

As Alex mentioned last weekend, consistancy seems to be a big factor in finishing well in Spec E30. As you guys get more experienced, your consistancy will only get better.

Carter

#8

what are the logistical and cost issues associated with getting a dynapack to the track? Seems like a very good idea to treat the engine as a black box vs doing borescope inspections/teardowns etc.

Has any thought been given to whether things like the gtech pro RR could provide similar comparative (not necessarily absolute) measurements? I don’t know if it has any capabilities to account for temperature and altitude factors.

cheers,
bruce

#9

Carlton wrote:

[quote]I am happy Carters machine at 270,000 miles has 146hps of possible power even if he runs a modest 139 to make us common folk feel better about him beating everyone all the time :slight_smile: If I could just learn a bit more race craft I may have a chance for a podium or two next year, provided Carter does not let in too many ringers for the 2006 season.

In case anyone cares, my car has 170,000 miles on it, I have not even changed the timing belt, which is way over due. Oh I did change the oil three times since I bought the car off a NY soccor mom. I forgot, … I have a backwards brake bias. I used one set of front pads vs two/three sets of rear pads. Lack of brakes probably explains my reasonably good lap times for a rookie

Team Green :slight_smile:
ps: I left out the part about the God given talent! I kind of like the ring of "Beethoven Racing"[/quote]

Carlton,

you need a new proportioning valve/and or master cylinder. Definitely replace the timing belt, tensioner, water pump and cam seal. The damage when it lets go is catastrophic. My 87 broke all 12 rockers in half and bent all the valves.

#10

leggwork wrote:

[quote]what are the logistical and cost issues associated with getting a dynapack to the track? Seems like a very good idea to treat the engine as a black box vs doing borescope inspections/teardowns etc.

Has any thought been given to whether things like the gtech pro RR could provide similar comparative (not necessarily absolute) measurements? I don’t know if it has any capabilities to account for temperature and altitude factors.

cheers,
bruce[/quote]

Good suggestion Bruce. We’ve considered getting a GTech-type device so we can have some kind of idea of where everyone is power-wise, when we don’t have access to a dyno at the track.

NASA Mid Atlantic has graciously paid a fee to have the Dyno at a few races. Next year, we’re considering a small per-race fee for all Spec E30 drivers, to help with the cost. Something like $10.00 per car.

We figure that all the drivers would be willing to pay a small fee to know if the front runners are cheating. Regardless of where I finish, I know I would.

So far, we’ve had close racing and the car’s dyno pulls show why. As long as we have a 3-5 hp difference among the front runner cars, everything is fine. For next year, and because of the variation among dyno types and their numbers, we’re probably going to have an "overpower" type rule. We’ll dyno several cars (unanounced) at the track and will come up with average hp and torque numbers for that weekend. Any unusually low cars won’t be a part of the average.

If one car is a certain percentage over that average figure, we’ll do some serious checking.

Carter

#11

Carter wrote:

Carter, was there also a rumor of swapping DME’s? I thought I heard something about this. This could certainly be a good idea since chip burning is pretty easy to do and could be concealed. If you ever decide to institute something like this I’ll be happy to donate a DME to the cause.

#12

Jack:

Thanks for bringing this back up. Yes, it’s part of the plan for next year. As we get closer to the '06 season, we’ll talk.

Carter

#13

Carter wrote:

[quote]Jack:

Thanks for bringing this back up. Yes, it’s part of the plan for next year. As we get closer to the '06 season, we’ll talk.

Carter[/quote]

Yes, please do. I have at least one DME that I could donate, I’ll see what else I have and/or what I can come up with to help out.

#14

I have a DME that can be donated as well.

Traqmate is what we need to use to verify on track performance. It’s affordable somebody in the series will probably allready own one by the end of next season. And maps driving line and g’s with GPS and Time. So this can help decipher the good driver in an ok car v/s bad driver in a good or illegal car.

#15

Carter:

As Han said, we dynoed our cars immediately following qualifying on Sunday and paid $60 each for the privilege. I will post my exact numbers tomorrow. The bottom line seems to be that removing the stock exhaust is worth about 10+ hp.

#16

robweenerpi wrote:

[quote]I have a DME that can be donated as well.

Traqmate is what we need to use to verify on track performance. It’s affordable somebody in the series will probably allready own one by the end of next season. And maps driving line and g’s with GPS and Time. So this can help decipher the good driver in an ok car v/s bad driver in a good or illegal car.[/quote] I used my friends Traqmate in my Spec E30 car at Watkins Glen last weekend… what fun!!

#17

robweenerpi wrote:

[quote]Traqmate is what we need to use to verify on track performance. It’s affordable somebody in the series will probably allready own one by the end of next season[/quote] Not to volunteer other people’s property, but Steve Kapuchansky and IIRC, Carlton, have Traqmates, already.

#18

Just pulled my dyno sheet from Summit Point and the 54 car posted 139hp with 142.1lbft.

#19

Thanks Alex. I added it to the official list.

Carter

#20

159 hp. 157 torque. Dynojet. At spec e30 config. :ohmy: