Camber Plates

[cwbaader]

Were I running 5" springs and had a problem with interference with the spring/tower, I would reinforce the spring hat and drill an offset hole, probably 1/2" to 1" to allow clearance, Clarence:laugh: CB

[kgobey]

[quote]9.3.8.2. Use of eccentric/offset bushings at the control arm pivot points or at the strut-tobearing-
carrier joint is permitted.
9.3.8.2.1 The maximum allowed front camber is -3.5 degrees.
9.3.8.2.2 The maximum allowed rear camber is -3.5 degrees[/quote]

All camber plates will offer the appropriate amount of legal camber with straight control arms and the appropriate control arm bushing material.

Due to the design of the lower control arms on the E30, it is extremely advantageous to swap out to a hard high quality eccentric bushing for front LCA’s.

If you are dialing in an extreme amount of front end camber or are unable to, start looking for bent control arms and rotated eccentric bushings, or OEM bushings. [Edit— Or bent subframe or malformed subframe bushes — or a bentass frame ]

To think Ireland’s stuff would not be sufficient is an indication of other issues not related tot he camber plates themselves.

[Ranger]

I thought that offset LCABs added caster, not camber. No?

[kgobey]

err… um… crap, let me check, might have got me there.

Still the rest of what I say I am standing with… Bent parts, old bushings, rotated bushings would cause you to have to work overly hard to achieve the desired camber.

[cwbaader]

As will a bent chassis. That is why we are able to do some modification on the towers. Try to find a non wrecked 20 year old BMW…some are out there, but few and far between. CB

[jlucas]

kgobey wrote:

All camber plates will offer the appropriate amount of legal camber with straight control arms and the appropriate control arm bushing material.

Pretty sure our car is not bent (the one Kyle is talking about). 2.5-2.6 deg till the upper spring base hits, both side, strut bar fits without slotting.

[kgobey]

well, what the hell! :ohmy:

Adjustable camber plates are absolutely essential for track cars. Our camber plates mount to the body from underneath the fender using the original mounting holes. These are designed for use with factory diameter springs and factory upper spring perch. We designed these specifically for the new Spec E30 class. All other camber plates on the market allow the spring perch to hit the upper plate which is not acceptable. Our bearing housing is tall so the spring perch will clear the upper plate. This kit includes slotted mounting plates, sliding plates with Aurora spherical bearings and hardware. Mounting plates are machined from billet 6061T6 aluminum and sliding plates are steel.

Maybe you need to bend your Strut housings.

[mahoneyj]

To summarize:

Chuck likes the Ground Control units and they have served him well for years.

Zumm just installed the VMTechnik plates and liked them.

Urethane is bad so UUC are out for track only cars.

We can only slot or cut the tops of the shock tower to allow clearance for bolts and adjusters. We can not bang the crap out of the shock towers with big hammers for clearance for springs (what I was referring to by messaging)or if you are more professional you cut the shock tower and weld in new metal to make room. (Also illegal)

Bending strut housings are also technically illegal.

So it seems like you can not go wrong with either the Ground Control or VMTechnik plates. If you go Ground Control just don’t over tighten the allen heads or you could strip the plate.

Thanks for the input.

Paul please leave some competitive advantage on the floor to make my life a bit easier next season.

[jlevie]

Paul please leave some competitive advantage on the floor to make my life a bit easier next season.

Drive faster!

[Ranger]

mahoneyj wrote:

[quote] If you go Ground Control just don’t over tighten the allen heads or you could strip the plate.
[/quote]
Which is what my local alignment shop did.

[secu]

I swapped out a set of Ireland plates for GCs last year and am completely happy with them. Don’t worry too much about the bolts threading into aluminum, just don’t try to tighten the bolts like they’re lug nuts and you’ll be fine. The VMTechnik ones look real good too.

For the whole slotting the top of the strut tower, part of the reason behind it is to allow the people with Ireland plates to run all 4 adjustment bolts. Previously you had 2 choices, run all 4 bolts and nowhere near the amount of camber you should be able to reach or only 2 bolts and get the camber you can. 4 bolts is safer than 2. Since there is a max camber rule, there isn’t really much of a way a slotted tower can be abused. As mentioned, modifying the side of the tower for spring perch clearance isn’t legal.

[leggwork]

the new camber slotting/notching rule does not allow one to remove the whole ring on the top of the strut tower or have free reign on changes to the top of the tower - the rule is clear as to the extent of the modifications allowed:
… Modifications are limited to laterally slotting the
three mounting holes, and trimming/notching the center hole only to allow the
installation of additional camber plate hardware.

“hardware” in this instance is nuts and bolts. See Sean’s description of why this rule was changed in the previous message.

In general, I wouldn’t push your luck on this rule as this is a hard area of the care to restore if you are deemed non-compliant.
bruce

cwbaader wrote:

Looks to me, with the upper plate being steel, you could remove the ring on top of the strut tower and put the camber plate on top. That should drop the front end about an inch. That is, if the spring will clear the top of the tower. CB

[PDS]

Paul please leave some competitive advantage on the floor to make my life a bit easier next season.

Jason,

No real worries there! I’m estimating about 85hp out of the trick junk yard motor I’m working with!

I appreciate all of the responses in this thread. I was attempting to achieve clarification to the rule change and I like where this has gone.

With that said, I’m going to button up my GC plates and see where my max camber is…As I have replaced all of the suspension pieces - control arms, bushes, tie rods, - I’m hoping things will measure out OK.

[cwbaader]

If the camber plates are designed (or can be) mounted on the top, then [color=#FF0000]“trimming/notching the center hole only to allow the installation of additional camber plate hardware.”[/color] is certainly legal. The rule gives you the leeway to mount the camber plate in a way that is most advantageous to you!!! CB

[leggwork]

looks like we need to reword the rule to make it clearer, but even as is, the rule says “to allow the installation of additional camber plate hardware” - it doesn’t say "to allow the installation of the camber plates"
thanks
bruce

[Steve_D]

leggwork wrote:

looks like we need to reword the rule to make it clearer …

A definition of hardware might clear it up. The only other use of the term “hardware” in the rules is in the engine section and it includes a parenthetical “(bolts, nuts, etc.)”.

Etc. is a really bad term to use in race car rules… :laugh:

Robinson’s car consists almost entirely of etc.

[cwbaader]

Let’s see…hardware…how about the spherical bearing. That is hardware, and since the top hole can be slotted for its installation who is to say the top cannot be modified to accomnmodate a bearing mounted on the top? Capich?? cB

[Carter]

'Good discussion and we like to see different interpretations so we can look at all possible scenarios.

Yes, the intent of this rule is to make this part of our drivers’ cars more durable and more safe, which helps keep costs down, and helps make them less likely to have something break at a bad time.

I’ll get with the Regional Series Directors and we’ll make the rule more specific. Probably something like “mounting hardware” or “nuts and bolts.”

Carter Hunt
Spec E30 National Series Director

[mahoneyj]

Thanks for all the responses to this and I think its helping others as well. I feel more than comfortable dropping 300+ bones on GC or VMTechnik plates.

PDS wrote:

As I have replaced all of the suspension pieces - control arms, bushes, tie rods,

Paul did you do the hubs as well? If they let go the results are usually bad.

85 hp could be a problems but my whopping 145 hp is a handicap for front running but still can get the job done if things fall in line and you get a bit lucky as well. All the same its still a bunch of fun.

Jason

[kgobey]

Quick note: Ireland confirmed the eccentric bushings in the Front LCA’s are only for caster - which we all knew and offered that the locating screw (now legal) should pretty much be part of this change as a matter of process.