Cage

#21

That is a reinforcement piece for an aftermarket rear sway bar. You can see my rear bar attachment points and similar reinforcement here:

#22

[quote=“King Tut” post=60722]That is a reinforcement piece for an aftermarket rear sway bar. You can see my rear bar attachment points and similar reinforcement here:

[/quote]

What he said.

#23

You can’t see it in the picture but there is also a tube from this mount that goes forward and ties back into the B pillar bar. Also, keep note that non required bars do not have to meet the minimum bar size (they can be smaller).’

Just FYI.

#24

Heres a link to the thread with all my cage photos.

http://www.spece30.com/forum/51-cages/51501-new-cage-photos

#25

[quote=“ilateapex” post=60731][quote=“King Tut” post=60722]That is a reinforcement piece for an aftermarket rear sway bar. You can see my rear bar attachment points and similar reinforcement here:

[/quote]

What he said.[/quote]

Thanks for all of the help.

#26

I am looking for a cage fabricator in the NJ area. Anyone have someone? I have looked at the NASA cage requirements, is there a document that is specific to E30’s?

#27

I can do it here in VA near VIR. I’ll be in NJ on Monday next at Guten Parts and Service if you want to meet to talk about cage design. I’ve built several Spec E30 cages and Spec3 (E36) also.
There’s no real document/white paper for SE30 cages. Rather, it’s probably best to use a seasoned fabricator who can offer you options, i.e., door bars, rear supports and bracing, etc. That same fabricator should be aware of the GCR’s and requirements for the sanctioning body. NASA and SCCA are the same, essentially.
At my shop, a good safe, solid cage starts right at $1850. That’s with “X’d” door bars. NASCAR style left bars add another $200. Includes window net from I/O Port Racing, your choice of colors.

Mark Welch
444 Wilson Street
Danville, VA 24541
434-770-2645
(Soon to be) www.GoE30Racing.com (site under construction)

#28

What is the differnce between xd and Nascar?

#29

X’d means a cross or 2 bars forming an X covering the door opening. NASCAR is 3 parallel bars that protrude into door opening. The bars are supported by short uprights. More tubing and more difficult to make but better protection.

#30

Cages are kind of complicated. You need to go sit in some e30’s and have their owners talk about their cages. There’s a bunch of variables and features and without sitting in a car you’re not going to understand the significance of what folks might try to discuss in this thread.

NASCAR bars is a door bar design where the bars intrude into the car’s door. This is a popular design because it’s perceived to give the driver more protection. Some cars have it on the driver’s side only. On the downside, you have to gut your doors and it’s harder to get in/out of your car.

The location of the knee bar is a big deal. Getting it high enough to clear the knees, forward enough to clear the dash, low enough to block the engine from intruding, and also clear the steering column is a neat trick and frequently not successful.

Getting the A and B pillar bars nice and snug against the pillars is also tricky.

Read a lot of threads about cages and look for pics. That will get you started. But that’s no substitute to sitting in people’s cars and talking to them about what they like and don’t like about their cages.

My first car had x brace door bars not NASCAR. If it had not reached end of life I would have probably done something to strengthen it’s driver’s side door bars. It’s need bar was a little low and forward. It gave me shin a nice whack when the car reached end of life.

My current car has A and B pillar bars too far from the pillars and the knee bar is too high. It has NASCAR bars which do make ingress/egress harder, but I feel much more protected. When I got the car it already had a cage. I’ve never worked with a cage builder and had a cage built to my specs. Hopefully I’m a couple yrs out yet from car #3.

#31

Last post on this subject for me. According to Ranger, “cages are complicated”. They’re really not. There’s a finite amount of space inside a car and a professional will use it to a.) give you as much room as possible and b.)fit as closely as possible to roof, A and B pillars, and doors in case of roll over or wreck. His comment about “knee bars” begs some difference of opinion. It can go below or above the steering column. Below it has to be padded, so no shim hits. It will not stop an intruding engine, no matter what! If you hit so hard that the engine comes into the driver compartment, well…the knee bar is the last of your worries. He is right about sitting in other people’s race cars to try to think about what you like and don’t like. Lastly, the matter of getting in and out of a damaged car or car on fire is somewhat determined by the driver’s size, as odd as that may sound. Very tall or fat driver’s may opt for a front door bar design that allows faster exit. Removable steering wheel should be a request also. Since 1995, I’ve built over 140 cages. They are definitely personal, as they should be, but not really that “complicated”.

Mark Welch

#32

[quote=“cageman” post=69777]Last post on this subject for me. According to Ranger, “cages are complicated”. They’re really not. There’s a finite amount of space inside a car and a professional will use it to a.) give you as much room as possible and b.)fit as closely as possible to roof, A and B pillars, and doors in case of roll over or wreck. His comment about “knee bars” begs some difference of opinion. It can go below or above the steering column. Below it has to be padded, so no shim hits. It will not stop an intruding engine, no matter what! If you hit so hard that the engine comes into the driver compartment, well…the knee bar is the last of your worries. He is right about sitting in other people’s race cars to try to think about what you like and don’t like. Lastly, the matter of getting in and out of a damaged car or car on fire is somewhat determined by the driver’s size, as odd as that may sound. Very tall or fat driver’s may opt for a front door bar design that allows faster exit. Removable steering wheel should be a request also. Since 1995, I’ve built over 140 cages. They are definitely personal, as they should be, but not really that “complicated”.

Mark Welch[/quote]
They aren’t complicated to you because you know what you’re doing. I only barely do. To the PO tho, there’s a lot more ways for a cage to crappy, or for cage features to vary, then he likely understands. So to him, I would describe cages as complicated.

#33

Ranger,

I have no problem with cageman’s post. Most people forget that there was a time when they did not understand a particular subject. When they talk about it they make things sound easy. There are many subjects that I have extensive knowledge. (E30’s is not one of them) When explaining a subject that I have a great deal of knowledge on I always put myself in their position … the position I was in when I did not understand the particular subject. Because of this I am thought of by many as a great “teacher” or go to guy on complicated things.

Cageman is not that type of person. He has been doing it for so long that he cannot fathom how someone could not understand something as simple as a cage. I am not offended by that because in his post he makes some good points.

I will research the topic of cages to death before I pull the trigger on it. That is the way I “roll”. I did it with my Mustang. I slowly turned it into a very good NA HPDE track car that is also my weekend car. (it’s a vert so there is only so far I could go with it…. besides I love it and would never put it in a “race”) Most guys would have saved all the money on handling and braking and thrown a blower on it … that would have been the cheap way out but would have made my car “unsafe at any speed” I did many upgrades to the suspension, brakes, roll bar, engine ect. I made sure that each upgrade built on the previous. It has all the go fast parts from an Eaton TruTrac rear up to the 6 piston StopTech brakes upfront. There is a very long list of mods and none of them had to be redone because I did it wrong the first time.

I am here to learn so if anyone else has comments about a cage, I am all ears.

Thank you Ranger and Cageman for your posts.

Greg

#34

It has to get done right, and done right the first time. That’s the tricky part. I’m just adding my 2 cents in response to the dash bar comments. Watch some sled testing crash videos and you’ll come away with a strong preference for locating it above the steering column.