Basketweave wheels legal?

#1

OK, so I know the answer (currently) is NO, but the logic for WHY stock E30 14x6.5" basketweaves are NOT legal makes no sense IMHO.

The rules say that wheels must be 14x6 or 15x7" - the reasons I have seen as to why stock 14x6.5" Basketweave wheels are not allowed range from them being too expensive, trying to keep the rules simple, not that many E30’s came stock with them, they’re too hard to clean, they bend easily, etc. Fact is, somewhere around 1/2 of the E30’s that I’ve seen on the street are using basketweaves, they are NOT that expensive- I sold a NICE set not too long ago for $250, I sell used ones for ~$50 each as long as they are round. Sure, Team Dynamics wheels are nice and they are fairly cheap as far as aftermarket wheels go- but they’re still ~$600 a set.

I just think it’s strange that these wheels are not legal, discuss amongst yourselves (if you like…) :slight_smile:

Anyone want to help me convince the rules maker(s) that they should be made legal?

Bret.

#2

My question is plain and simple: if this series is about keeping things cheap and as close to stock as possible to keep costs down, why can’t I legally use the very rims that were put on this car at the factory (and were obviously still on the car when I bought it)?

As we’ve already observed, many people building SpecE30 racecars are using the 325is as a starting point, and disallowing the basketweaves just puts everyone out more money. Trying to avoid this common expenditure of money is actually the defense for many of the other rules in SpecE30, such as why we don’t allow chips–if everyone pursues a performance advantage and spends money doing so, but then everyone is evenly matched and a touch faster, what’s the point? Let’s save money and keep the racing close, albeit slower than it could be.

I’m also growing a little suspicious of prices on SpecE30 items. Witness the recent price increase of the Team Dynamics wheels, and the high relative expense of the H+R race springs or the Hawk HT-10 rear brake pads compared to the same items for other models. I’m beginning to feel a little like we’re being prayed upon.

Sasha

#3

It’s actually a fair question…but I would phrase it follows:

If the stock wheel size BMW used in the U.S. were 14 x 6 and 14 x 6.5, why do the rules mandate 14 x 6 and 15 x 7?

In other words, why do the rules mandate a non-stock items (15 x 7 wheels) to replace a stock item (14 x 6.5 wheels).

I think most racers have gone with a lightweight 15 x 7’s which I think allows for a slightly lower-profile tire.

Does anyone race on 14 x 6’s?

Rob

#4

I had the same idea about why prices of parts are so high. I called H&R the other day, to figur out why all other H&R race springs have a retail price of $349 and the ones for us are $549. They said that they are mad differently and are a true race spring. I tried to order them for my car, but they are backordered for 6+ weeks. That is terrible. I want to get my car ready so I can start to track it. Anyways, does anyone have these springs for sale now?

#5

How much do basket’s way? If they aren’t lighter than 13 pounds I don’t honestly think anyone would cry about it. There is no way they have any sort of advantage over a 15x7 wheel. I thought if your car had it from the factory then it was ok hince the class name SPEC E30.

#6

$549??? for the H&Rs?

I talked with Rob at bimmerworld on Friday and the price quoted to me was $349. He also stated that no one has them and they’re backorded to the factory.

Gareth.

#7

I hate to come across this way, but the fact of the matter is the basketweaves are in fact illegal regardless of whether or not there is any advantage to running them. I cannot speak for Carter and others involved with devopment of the series on their rational, but the fact remains that the rules are very clear.

They do allow for use of the bottlecap wheels which are significantly more available and cheaper than the basketweaves. Even with this fact, most people in the series choose to go aftermarket for stronger lighter wheels that don’t have 15 years of abuse on them.

Also, the series is Spec E30, not Stock E30…

Post edited by: kchildre, at: 2006/04/26 15:25

#8

kchildre wrote:

[quote]MikeD wrote:
I hate to come across this way, but the fact of the matter is the basketweaves are in fact illegal regardless of whether or not there is any advantage to running them. I cannot speak for Carter and others involved with devopment of the series on their rational, but the fact remains that the rules are very clear.

[/quote]

Mike - you are correct, the basketweave are illegal. The rules are very clear in that only 14x6 or 15x7 wheels are allowed. The question posed, however, was why the 14x6.5 wheels are disallowed.

ON SOAPBOX
I think that the why part is something that we as racers in this series should have the right to question. We may not like, understand, or agree with the answer, but that’s not the point. I think that Carter and Mike have done an excellent job of providing explanations to similar questions on other items when asked in the past, with arguably a few exception (I still don’t get the old vs. new bumper thing). I also think this is a reasonable question. I don’t have a set of basketweaves, but if I did - and could think of other things I’d rather spend $600 on - it would likely cross my mind as well as to why these wheels would not be allowed (assuming they are > 13 lbs, of course). OFF SOAPBOX

#9

Also worth noting that 15 x 7 basketweaves, which were offered on Euro models and are identical in style to the 14 x 6.5 basketweaves that were offered on the US 325is, are legal.
Rob

btw, if you check around the various race boards and ebay, you should be able to pick up a set of used, lightweight 15 x 7 wheels for around $300.

#10

kchildre wrote:

[quote]I hate to come across this way, but the fact of the matter is the basketweaves are in fact illegal regardless of whether or not there is any advantage to running them. I cannot speak for Carter and others involved with devopment of the series on their rational, but the fact remains that the rules are very clear.

They do allow for use of the bottlecap wheels which are significantly more available and cheaper than the basketweaves. Even with this fact, most people in the series choose to go aftermarket for stronger lighter wheels that don’t have 15 years of abuse on them.

Also, the series is Spec E30, not Stock E30…<br><br>Post edited by: kchildre, at: 2006/04/26 15:25[/quote]

I think we all understand that stock 14x6.5 basketweaves are illegal- that was sort of the reason I started this thread, to open a discussion on WHY they are illegal and if they should not be made LEGAL.

I disagree with the statement that bottlecaps are significantly more available than basketweaves, though they do tend to be slightly less expensive- but as I mentioned in my original post, straight used basketweaves are readily available for ~$30-60 each.

I also understand that it’s SpecE30 and not StockE30, but I have not been able to find any other part that was installed on these cars at the factory that is specifically disallowed by the rules.

This is exactly the sort of discussion I was hoping we would have on this topic. I hope Carter and/or Mike Mills will chime in on this when they have a chance.

Bret.

#11

[quote]sdais wrote:
Mike- you are correct, the basketweave are illegal. The rules are very clear in that only 14x6 or 15x7 wheels are allowed. The question posed, however, was why the 14x6.5 wheels are disallowed.[/quote]

I agree it’s a reasonable question to ask… my main point was to Mike regarding the fact that I believe he implied its OK to break the rules as long as there is no performance gain from it.

#12

I just wrote a long explanation, hit submit, and got &quot;website not responding.&quot;

It’s late so I’m going to bed.

I’ll rewrite (and will copy just in-case) it tomorrow.

Carter

#13

kchildre wrote:

[quote]

Also, the series is Spec E30, not Stock E30…[/quote]

you are right

#14

here is a previous response by Carter …
http://spece30.com/index.php?option=com_mamboboard&Itemid=&func=view&catid=13&id=1366#1366

bruce

#15

Bruce,

Thanks for proving me to be a long-time whiner about this issue! :ohmy: I guess it just shows that as I continue to mull it over, I still don’t see the logic of this particular rule. Since both the bottlecaps and 15 x 7 aftermarket wheels (>13 lbs.) are both allowed, and the 14 x 6.5 basketweaves fall in between in terms of width, this is a rule that seems kind of internally inconsistent and stands out to me in contrast to the vast number of rules that make sense to me.

Sasha

#16

leggwork wrote:

[quote]here is a previous response by Carter …
http://spece30.com/index.php?option=com_mamboboard&Itemid=&func=view&catid=13&id=1366#1366

bruce[/quote]

Bruce:

Thanks for saving me the trouble of posting again. Interestingly, what I wrote last night was almost the exact same as that post, that I had not remembered.

A few more items that were new though…

  1. We want everyone to feel free to bring up any subject.
  2. One of our main points to Spec E30 is the stability of the Rules. Even if there are a few small inconsistancies (sp?) in the Rules, overall, they are fair and reasonable. Therefore, we have only made changes to gross errors (we originally forgot to include removable steering wheels) but generally won’t make changes when small errors surface. We want our drivers to feel comfortable that the Rules will stay stable and that they don’t have to worry about &quot;what will be changed this week&quot; because someone brought up a small problem or error. Stability is MUCH more important to us than a few small errors, that can usually be delt with easily.

And as we have pointed out before, when you come to the track with your car and get in the fight with us, you won’t worry one-bit about your basketweaves.

Carter

Carter

#17

RJME wrote:

[quote]Also worth noting that 15 x 7 basketweaves, which were offered on Euro models and are identical in style to the 14 x 6.5 basketweaves that were offered on the US 325is, are legal.
[/quote]

I want to clarify this point…I may have found a set of 4x100, 15&quot;x7&quot; ix wheels…Legal or not? I may acquire them for rains.

Don

#18

Forgive me if I’m speaking out of my arse:

15 x 7 are legal as long as they meet the minimum weight of 13 lbs. Our discussions about basketweaves are specifically U.S. basketweaves which were 6.5 inches wide and therefore illegal. I gather there are Euro basketweaves that are 15 x 7, so not all &quot;basketweaves&quot; are illegal.

Sasha

#19

yep, the 15x7 euro or iX basketweaves are legal, you just need a big spacer with them.
bruce

#20

leggwork wrote:

[quote]yep, the 15x7 euro or iX basketweaves are legal, you just need a big spacer with them.
bruce[/quote]

they do have crappy offsets