August RA Smack Talk

#61

Steve D wrote:

[quote]Or we could move to Thunder, where there is a whole different level of lack-of-talent. :laugh: :stuck_out_tongue:

Steve D.[/quote]

Speaking of that, for any of you guys that weren’t there on Saturday, two Thunder guys (Factory Five and a Vette) took each other out…

on a double yellow lap!!!

Talk about SUCK! There were at least three separate incidents at the same time during their race. It ended up making us sit FOREVER on the grid and canceled the last HPDE3/4 session of the day.

Saturday was a real crash-fest. As IndyJim mentioned on his blog, I guess everybody was looking at what was moving over in the trees.

#62

Damn, one time a Spec Miata guy store my woman! talk about sucking…

Al

#63

FARTBREF wrote:

[quote]Damn, one time a Spec Miata guy stole my woman! talk about sucking…

Al[/quote]

Here she is. I’ll mail her back in the morning.

#64

Lol, good one Steve.

But back to Miata bashing…how many Miata’s in the SE have been taken out by E30’s?

I had a Miata pull a bonehead pass on me at the entrance to the S curves Saturday but I’d read his mind and was ready for it. I went wide and lifted to get him by in a hurry. If I had held my line I’d a been punted as I went for the apex. Doesn’t that sound familiar.

That’s when I noted that Miata’s aren’t required to put numbers on visible from the rear. That way all we can report is that “it was red”. I mentioned that to Jason the Miata director and his response was “sorry, but that’s what the CCR says”. What, like their CCR is no longer updated every year because it’s reached perfection?

#65

contact is gonna happen unfortunately, especially when you have alot of cars in class runnin similar times like spec miata and e30’s.

if your getting hit from behind maybe theres a reason…

#66

zul8r wrote:

[quote]contact is gonna happen unfortunately, especially when you have alot of cars in class runnin similar times like spec miata and e30’s.

if your getting hit from behind maybe theres a reason…[/quote]

Ah, well aren’t you a treat. You and I have never met, yet you treat me poorly.

I’m slow at RA. But if you are en route to the apex and someone sticks their nose in 12", one of 3 things will happen. Passee will have to go off-line to prevent impact, passer will have to go into the dirt, or passee will get punted.

Passer is responsible for the safe pass. And in that scenario passer had no right to be there. Passer made a decision to create the dangerous situation. Passee may well be the one that ends up needing a new car tho. This is the scenario that has often played itself out when the fast Miatas come thru the slow E30’s.

The fact that I’m slow at RA doesn’t change physics, the rules, nor the boundaries of reasonable behavior.

I don’t think that it’s too much to ask for others to make good passing decisions. That is to say, a passing decision that is based on geometry, speed deltas, and the rules. As opposed to hoping that the passee is reading your mind and is willing to give the passer the room his position hasn’t earned him.

Clearly when there is bucks and jobs on the line, more risk is accepted. But that isn’t what is going on here.

Go read NASA 25.4.2. Anyone that doesn’t like the rules are probably welcome at the local demolition derby.

Maybe I’m a pussy and a whiner. Or maybe I’ve grown attached to my car and building a replacement would be a great big pita.

#67

zul8r wrote:

bull$hit.

zul8r wrote:

complete bull$hit.

#68

zul8r wrote:

[quote]contact is gonna happen unfortunately, especially when you have alot of cars in class runnin similar times like spec miata and e30’s.

if your getting hit from behind maybe theres a reason…[/quote]

You are right, the reason is the crazy asshole that doesn’t understand we race by a rule set that you have no respect for. What part of “no contact is allowed” do you not understand?

#69

How about this one? Jon Stroup wasn’t even being passed and got taken out by a Miata, watch my rearview mirror. Knocked his rear (aluminum) bumper clean off.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=982113085686959835

And I’ve got to upload the one of the Miata hitting me square in the ass coming into turn 12 of Road Atlanta IN THE RAIN, IN MY FIRST RAIN RACE, WITH A BIG EFFIN “R” ON MY PLATE. Luckily he hit me square and I barely knew what happened and stayed online. He unfortunatly went spinning out of control in front of several other cars. I had already let two Honda Challenge guys pass on the inside coming under the bridge with no problems, he only had to wait about 3 more seconds.

John

#70

zul8r wrote:

[quote]contact is gonna happen unfortunately, especially when you have alot of cars in class runnin similar times like spec miata and e30’s.

if your getting hit from behind maybe theres a reason…[/quote]
Shane, you might want to back away slowly from your position. Your perspectives are unsporting, unhelpful, and incorrect by the rules.

Let’s review one section of track over the past 12 months: Turn 3 thru the esses at Road Atl.

Aug 2008: Miata clipped a SpecE30 in the esses. Basically identical situation to this weekend’s. Carnage: Destroyed E30 and destroyed 944.

Enduro Aug 2009: Miata punted a SpecE30 in T3, then t-boned for good measure. Oh yeah, the driver AFAIK hasn’t come forward to talk man-to-man to Robinson nor reported himself to NASA.

Aug 2009 the Levie accident. Scratch another SpecE30

These aren’t silly little love taps. These are destroying cars, costing the owners thousands of $ to get back in the game, and judging by the damage to Levie’s car, he is extremely fortunate to have hit the wall from the rear, and not a side impact. This stuff is not a game, and someone is going to get hurt.

#71

How about you start the spec miatas in front of the spec E30 group. Just a thought, I think it is easier for a front running spec E30 to pass a back marker spec miata than the other way around.

#72

I wanted to go read the Miata side of stuff, but I can’t figure out where they hangout. I tried NASA, and specmiata.com.

#73

Good post Chuck. We have got to get beyond this contact is inevitable mentality. I still firmly believe there are people racing that have NEVER read the NASA CCR’s. It makes no difference what type of car you are driving, the rules are clear.

#74

Ranger wrote:

[quote]Lol, good one Steve.

But back to Miata bashing…how many Miata’s in the SE have been taken out by E30’s?

I had a Miata pull a bonehead pass on me at the entrance to the S curves Saturday but I’d read his mind and was ready for it. I went wide and lifted to get him by in a hurry. If I had held my line I’d a been punted as I went for the apex. Doesn’t that sound familiar.

That’s when I noted that Miata’s aren’t required to put numbers on visible from the rear. That way all we can report is that “it was red”. I mentioned that to Jason the Miata director and his response was “sorry, but that’s what the CCR says”. What, like their CCR is no longer updated every year because it’s reached perfection?[/quote]

Actually, that’s not what I said. I said that the CCR has the requirements for numbers for ALL cars, not just miatas. You can read this in 18.1.1.

What I SAID was, I have no problem putting that in the rules for the SM class (since I write them on a national level for SM) but that I could not force anyone to put them on as they are not required by the CCR.

In addition, I didn’t appreciate how you brought your suggestion up and your implications. I don’t respond well to that stuff and diplomacy and polite behavior will go a long way to helping you get what you want.

Jason Holland

#75

Thanks Chuck.

“And all Miata drivers are pinheads.”

Not so.
March 2007, Road Atlanta: boneheaded,“I can’t stop my e30, I’ve exceed my talent level” and our driver punts a front running Miata in 10a.

The e30 driver no longer races. Was it “I’m watching you” by NASA and officials that achieved the no longer racing result?

Doesn’t matter, cause the damage was already done to the innocent Miata driver.

I don’t know how to stop keep the horses in the barn.
I’m liking a 13/13 idea more and more, but that is not the NASA rule. Shucks, if there was such I’d be seeing you next March.

Chuck, Jason and Tom Henning talk.We talk, they talk…everything is good. Put the helment on and the positive discussions/mindset just goes poof…but we’ve got to do something.The old "know who you’re racing with " only works within your own race group.

RP

#76

Maybe we could get Fred and the scientist dudes at Clemson to start work developing a Miata repellent. I’m thinking some kind of testosterone emitting paint

#77

Ugh. I just spent 30 minutes typing out a response only to have it not accepted and erased…

so…

I will make this shorter…

First off, I’m very sorry about the two Jim’s getting taken out. I do feel a measure of responsibility and I hate when that happens to anyone. I’m sorry to hear it.

Some other points…

  1. This internecine conflict is not one sided. There are many incidents of boneheaded moves on both sides. Unfortunately for me, the miatas have been the culprits in the big ones.

  2. The two big incidents we are talking about, the drivers were from out of region. I think this adds to problem when people do not know who they are racing with. It makes it easier to do heinous shit.

  3. Courtesy does exist on both sides. I got some at Barber, I returned some this last weekend. We are not all monsters! :slight_smile:

  4. The majority of sm drivers want clean close racing as Steve said. I know my guys do.

  5. I take this seriously. I spent alot of my time this last weekend and this week to help find out who hit Jim R and also dealing with the Levie incident. We found the person in Jim’s incident and that is in process. As for the other miata driver, he was sent home with my blessing and I recommended a harsh penalty. If he comes back he will be on probation. Please don’t believe I don’t care about this shite.

  6. Alot of these posts on both forums are not helpful and only fuel the adversarial relationship we’ve got here. If you don’t wanna help then shut it. I understand expressing frustration but blanket statements and such don’t help.

  7. I’m in favor of breakout meetings between the two groups. I think it will lower contact. I’m all for it.

In the end, I’m committed to helping alleviate this problem and I welcome anyone else willing to assist.

Thanks for listening!

Jason Holland
NASA SE SM/SSM Director
NASA National SM/SSM Director

#78

Jason - thanks for taking the time. I know you and Chuck do your best to herd both of these groups of characters and it is appreciated.

I hope nothing that I’ve said has implied that all miatas are bad drivers. The only bad miata driver I personally know is DeVinney. As you mention we’re all a$$hats on occassion, unfortunately the only ones that get big press is when metal gets bent.

Jim

#79

IndyJim wrote:

[quote]Jason - thanks for taking the time. I know you and Chuck do your best to herd both of these groups of characters and it is appreciated.

I hope nothing that I’ve said has implied that all miatas are bad drivers. The only bad miata driver I personally know is DeVinney. As you mention we’re all a$$hats on occassion, unfortunately the only ones that get big press is when metal gets bent.

Jim[/quote]

Jim,

You’re welcome. I was happy to help…

Jason

#80

drumbeater wrote:

[quote]How about this one? Jon Stroup wasn’t even being passed and got taken out by a Miata, watch my rearview mirror. Knocked his rear (aluminum) bumper clean off.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=982113085686959835
[/quote]

John -

I have to respectfully disagree. Jon was being passed by two Miatas who were dicing it up just like you and he were. Jon did nothing wrong. His only mistake in hindsight was that he expected both cars to slip through clean. When #1 checked up, #2 got sideways and tank slapped into Jon (I think). He left the door wide open for that outbraking maneuver by not moving from the racing line.

Again, 20/20 hindsight. But if I saw two Miatas getting to that point on that track with a head of steam, I would lift and follow them through the left and the caroussel. There’s a good chance they would have caught you and possibly slowed you and almost certainly he could follow them through on the inside of 8.

All that is beside the point I wanted to make. By saying he wasn’t being passed, it makes it appear that it is another case of a Miata blindsiding and E30. It wasn’t.

Steve D.