abs, whats the deal

#1

Hi all. Im new to spec e30 but not to nasa or racing. My current build is almost complete. My car is an 86 4 door. My motor is from a 90. All my suspension components (trailing arms, subframe,strut tubes, etc) are from the 90. There are no provisions for the abs pump in the engine bay however my suspension components have the holes for the abs sensors.

This being my 4th race car build i have no desire to run an antiquated abs system. Lets be real, its almost 30 years old. So buying parts to retrofit an old system seems to me as being a waste of money when it can be used for consumables.

I definitely plan on going to nationals at some point. Whether im competitive is a different story.

Ive read the rules (new and old) over and over again and it doesnt say anywhere that the abs needs to be in the car or further more operational. I understand the “if its not mentioned then dont do it”.

If the cars have a minimum weight why do i have to carry an abs pump that doesnt work?
When i go to nationals and if the car goes to impound will i be dq’ed for not having the pump?
Why would i be dq’ed for being at a “disadvantage” for not having working abs?

I know this has been a topic in the past but im trying to make sense of this. Any info is appreciated. Cant wait to be out there with the se30 clan.

Thanx
Larry C

#2

You have the right idea. If we were allowed to remove the ABS system, the rules would say so. But it’s generally agreed that there is no requirement that your abs system actually work.

I know of no one in SpecE30 that perceives abs as a hindrance or useless. Sure, there’s lots of folks, especially those with SCCA experience, that dismiss abs, but I think that it’s significant that the guys that are actually in the class are pretty much in agreement that it’s useful.

You wouldn’t be dq’d for being at a disadvantage. You’d be dq’d for being non-compliant. “Not an advantage” is no defense at nationals.

Just how much of your abs system needs to be installed is a little fuzzy. Technically it all needs to be there, but as some point folks are going to quit caring. I would discuss this with your regional SpecE30 director. For one of the national events, the question goes to Shawn Meze, the national director.

The front runners get a lot of scrutiny at national events. If you had solely the abs pump, but no plumbing, wiring, nor sensors, and finished a national race in the top 3, you might get protested. Modifying the plumbing such that it goes thru an inop abs pump wouldn’t be that hard. Neither would be getting a complete abs harness, sensors, computer and abs relay and, more-or-less putting them all in place w/o bothering to connect them to anything. If I was a front runner at nationals, I’d do it.

#3

Install the ABS, sleep well at night because your car complies with the rules.

Yep, I read where you have racing experience. So do I, and ran without the ABS in an 86 chassis for 3 years.

One race in the rain will convince you to add the system. I’m surprised that a panic stop and a set of flat spotted tires haven’t already necessitated the change.

RP

#4

I don’t have working abs because why should I start now, and I don’t want to buy new sensors. The fact that the sensors are all little bits of unsprung weight hanging on my suspension and the pump is exactly where I want to remove weight the most is exactly why they need to be there to be legal. The fact that I have it all installed for compliance but don’t want it would elevate my level of irritation with any competitor who didn’t have the system installed. As for the wiring I wouldn’t care, but then I wouldn’t have cared about half of the reasons people get dq’d for at nationals.

#5

Don’t buy sensors at $xx, just buy a parts car for the same $xx.

RP

#6

Thanks for all the info. Honestly its not really what i wanted to hear but it is what it is. Just to be clear my car has absolutely zero abs parts. My engine bay doesnt even have provisions for the pump. Im going to double check the build date of the car tonight.

This is my 3rd e30. My first was an 87 and the abs harness was removed before i got it. My second was a crashed 90 that my motor and suspension came from for my 3rd the 86. The abs in the 90 wasnt fuctional either (before the accident). I bought it cheap from a friend after someone hit him. With all that being said it leads me to believe that the abs systems arent really all that good and to put them under race conditions well, its like trying to access the Internet on a commadore 64.

Picking up a parts car really isnt an option with all the spare parts and other cars ive accumulated. Also to buy a parts car that doesnt come cheap on long island just for an abs system i cant justify.

Im not afraid of threshhold braking in the rain or flatspotting tires. I raced a lot of 2002s in the past and with solid rotors n drums you learn a thing or 2 about braking. I ran on hoosiers in an rx7 as well and the toyos are a little cheaper and as far as i know a slightly harder compound.

What upsets me is having to search for parts that i would really rather not use especially if there is no clarification in the rules.
Im sorry, just venting at this point because now i have to deal with the likes of craiglist and spend the cashola that im sure would have useful for a nice set of used rims.

Again thanks for everyones help. This is one of the reasons i choose se30. You dont get the same camaraderie in other classes.

Cheers
Larry C

#7

Don’t search for parts, just buy them off of ebay or some kid at bf.c. A couple weeks ago I bought 3x ABS pumps on ebay. $50 shipped an one can be on it’s way to you. All the rest of the parts are available on ebay too. The piping is easy to make, just need a tubing bender and a “bubble flare” gizmo.

For ABS pump fastening points you could either fab some to hold the pump in place, cut them out of a car at a junkyard, or have some bf.c kid cut the section out of the car he’s parting out.

Since you’re not trying to make the abs system actually function, the whole project is pretty easy. You need to talk to your regional director tho. He might say “fasten 20lbs of ballast in place of the abs pump and you’re done.” You don’t know until you ask him.

#8

I ran with no abs for years. Mine had been taken out for SCCA. I put a dead pump in the proper spot so the weight was correct but had no plumbing. Never got called out on it and even had a few director types agree that was a good solution for fairness. Recently had it reinstalled and while I’m working out a pedal feel issue so far I like it a lot.