2012 Minimum Weight

#101

Updated Poll Results: 23 for reduction, 9 against.

#102

Anyone have an update on where this stands (not just the poll)? We have our first 2012 race in a few weeks. Just curious if there is going to be a change.

#103

While not an official statement (that would be up to Carter), I believe the consensus among the Series Directors was for no change.

#104

How about setting the hp/tq levels relavent to the stock levels and adjusting weight accoring to that?

This may accomplish two goals:

  1. Those that don’t want to get an awesome engine build and get every last ounce of hp can have less hp and less weight.

  2. those that don’t want to run ballast can get a restrictor.

Just a thought.

#105

Just for the record, I’m 230lbs fully dressed, have to run max ballast, full tank and full coolsuit to make weight. Another 50 pounds would be wonderful. If I pulled all the ballast, coolsuit and no driver, I could roll the scales at 2300. A few people here have echoed something I think as well. If you are trying to build a daily driver that you can race, the minimum weight needs to be higher. That said, its just my opinion that a race car is a race car and a street car is a street car. Making weight, even with another 50 pounds off, is really easy.

#106

And, not that it matters, but a power to weight table I think makes a ton of sense. It eliminates the need for a $6000 race engine, which, unfortunately, is starting to be needed to win, a lot like in SM.

#107

We already have that–its called gts1.

#108

We already have that–its called gts1.[/quote]

Really?

GTS is a completely open class with the only rule being power/weight. That isn’t even in the same galaxy as this class philosophy.

#109

We already have that–its called gts1.[/quote]

Really?

GTS is a completely open class with the only rule being power/weight. That isn’t even in the same galaxy as this class philosophy.[/quote]

If you are going to throw p/w into any series, spec or not, you are drastically changing the philosphy. Who’s bringing the dyno to check each car for compliance?

#110

Compliance testing is an entire other discussion. Nobody pulls heads or oil pans or anything else to check compliance throughout the year, either. At Nationals, they do real tech. At a regional level, its more about individual honesty. You get a dyno at the beginning of the year. If a dyno shows up at a race, and they do sometimes, you can do verifications. To me, the power to weight rule keeps things cheap and fair. I’m quickly growing tired of needing a $6000 engine in my Spec Miata to keep up, and yes, thats what it costs these days. You have to do every trick in the book to a Miata to be competitive, and frankly, I have neither the time nor the desire to spend that much time on a Miata, or a SE30. The power to weight rule in the Factory Five class, which I also run in, works great and evens out all the power issues so nobody gets to complain.

#111

A hp-weight class is nothing more than a money class. I have run GTS2 and quit because it was much cheaper to run SCCA!!! To be competitive in a hp-weight class you must maximize your motor for any class you choose to run. Good luck with that. Chuck

#112

So if no compliance is being done why add another thing that won’t be checked which arguably could have a bigger impact on performance? Go hang out in the gts paddock and hear all the speculation about who has what numbers.

#113

Kyle:

Besides you, who ever said that compliance checking isnt being done in SE30? Come run in SoCal, I promise you will spend some time on the dyno here! Im sure other regions are the same. Maybe not so in your face about it but its being done. There are other ways to verify power levels without a dyno.

Shawn Meze
SoCal SpecE30 Regional Director

#114

You don’t want to spend the money to have three competive race cars then pick one and sell the rest!

I really doubt a 20 over blueprinted motor makes a lot more than a 20 over homebuilt motor.

I have a race car, but which way does a wrench turn and what does tire PSI mean? Let’s add ballast to everyone else’s car until it’s as slow as mine because my dyno numbers suck and I Don’t want a new motor.

Go to GTS1/2 do not pass go do not collect 200$.

#115

[quote=“SurferShawn” post=62185]Kyle:

Besides you, who ever said that compliance checking isnt being done in SE30? Come run in SoCal, I promise you will spend some time on the dyno here! Im sure other regions are the same. Maybe not so in your face about it but its being done. There are other ways to verify power levels without a dyno.

Shawn Meze
SoCal SpecE30 Regional Director[/quote]

I didn’t say it, the guy I quoted did in support of his argument said it. I was pointing out that his argument in favor of a rule that can’t be easily enforced because other rules aren’t enforced all the time doesn’t hold water.

I’d be interested to hear of other methods to check hp without a dyno.

#116

We already have that–its called gts1.[/quote]

Really?

GTS is a completely open class with the only rule being power/weight. That isn’t even in the same galaxy as this class philosophy.[/quote]

If you are going to throw p/w into any series, spec or not, you are drastically changing the philosphy. Who’s bringing the dyno to check each car for compliance?[/quote]

Same could be said for every other part on the car (compliance) and I don’t believe this is a philosophy change in the least.

And Nasa usually has a dyno at nationals. At least they did for the two I raced in.

#117

[quote=“turbo329is” post=62187]You don’t want to spend the money to have three competive race cars then pick one and sell the rest!

I really doubt a 20 over blueprinted motor makes a lot more than a 20 over homebuilt motor.

I have a race car, but which way does a wrench turn and what does tire PSI mean? Let’s add ballast to everyone else’s car until it’s as slow as mine because my dyno numbers suck and I Don’t want a new motor.

Go to GTS1/2 do not pass go do not collect 200$.[/quote]

While I’d like to give yo a high five for the Ron Paul stuff, this other junk needs to be addressed.

A 20 over professionally built motor by someone who knows what they are doing is going to make quite a bit more (relatively) than a homebuilt motor, unless the guy doing the homebuilt motor is a sleeper super race engine builder.

This is not a myth and is fact. Been there, spent the money. It’s actually one of the reasons I’m sitting in this forum talking about racing a spec class in NASA rather than going back to SCCA.

#118

To run up front, you must maximize everything…motor, suspension, weight distribution, tire pressures…everything. If you don’t think a pro built .20 over motor will pull your junk yard motor on the straights, you’re badly mistaken. Anyway, remember…its not about horsepower, its about handling. Chuck

#119

[quote=“SurferShawn” post=62185]Kyle:

Besides you, who ever said that compliance checking isnt being done in SE30? Come run in SoCal, I promise you will spend some time on the dyno here! Im sure other regions are the same. Maybe not so in your face about it but its being done. There are other ways to verify power levels without a dyno.

Shawn Meze
SoCal SpecE30 Regional Director[/quote]

What are you checking for on the dyno? Is there a magic number that is the HP limit?

#120

[quote=“turbo329is” post=62214][quote=“SurferShawn” post=62185]Kyle:

Besides you, who ever said that compliance checking isnt being done in SE30? Come run in SoCal, I promise you will spend some time on the dyno here! Im sure other regions are the same. Maybe not so in your face about it but its being done. There are other ways to verify power levels without a dyno.

Shawn Meze
SoCal SpecE30 Regional Director[/quote]

What are you checking for on the dyno? Is there a magic number that is the HP limit?[/quote]
I’ve chased engines and hp a lot over the last couple of years. Lessons learned:
-Getting a couple hp is harder than I thought it would be.
-Hp on the dyno doesn’t necessarily translate to hp the next day on the track because the DME will attempt to adjust to whatever undetectable tweek you did.
-Hp means less than I thought it did. I’ve drag raced down a straight away as much as almost anyone here. In many cases I knew what the other person dynoed. I’m absolutely convinced that a difference of 3hp is unnoticeable.
-We spend too much time orienting on the engine and not enough time trying to optimize engine management. Also, optimizing engine management is a bastard because the DME adjusts.

IMO money spent on coaching and optimizing suspension and tires is money better spent.

Re. weight/hp ratio. This is an interesting idea. Imagine this scenario…what if the base # translated to 2600lbs and 145hp, call it 17.93lbs/hp. Then we had a ballast rule that simply said…take your dyno report and add ballast until you get 17.93lbs/hp. For a 160hp car this means 2869lbs.

I’m not talking about making this a hp/weight class with all the $$ issues associated with it. All the current rules re. would continue to apply. This would just be a “ballast adjustment” rule.

The beauty of this rule is that it would allow high mileage motors to compete effectively with pro built motors. What could be more in the spirit of SpecE30 than a ruleset that indicates the newby can be entirely competitive with his 145hp 180k mi. engine?